Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove

At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.

To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.

The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.

Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.

2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.

On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.

St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.

By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.

It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.

Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.

Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.

In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.

So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.

Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.

Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.

European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.

Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.

Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.

It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.

Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.

By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.

Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.

Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.

So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’

The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.

Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.

Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.

We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.

It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.

Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.

About SFM
The Scottish Football Monitor is following the lead of RangersTaxCase in an attempt to hold the Scottish mainstream media to account and to question. If they do not ask the difficult questions, we will.

3,764 Responses to Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

  1. rantinrobin says:

    From the Boston Herald today :

    With a disciplined approach not adopted by some financiers and unruly fans in Scottish football recently, Celtic’s dogged defense held off the four-time European champions to win 2-1 in Glasgow.

    It’s a very impressive result against the best team in the world,” Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan told The Associated Press on Thursday. “It gives Scottish football a lift when there’s a lot of negative stories around, at a time when it’s really needed, and showed some positive signs that things are not as bad as people might believe they are.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    So not Armageddon then Stewart?

  2. bobferris70 says:

    What I’m reading on here is a really sad indictment of the anti-Rangers brain-washing that’s accompanied the whole saga at Rangers.

    Let’s divorce it from Scottish football, and look elsewhere… England.

    Leeds Oldco was liquidated in 2007. Can you imagine Leeds fans saying “nah, not supporting them, it’s a newco, not the same club.” Not a chance.
    Charlton Oldco was liquidated back in the 80s. Can you imagine their fans saying “nah, not supporting them, it’s a newco, not the same club.”
    Middlesbrough as well. Luton. None of them have this warped outlook that’s merely a product of anti-Rangers feeling.

    Seeing comments where fans say they would NOT support a team:
    – called Heart of Midlothian FC
    – wearing Hearts jerseys
    – adorned by the Hearts badge
    – playing at Tynecastle
    – followed by Hearts fans..

    Why? Because it’s a newly registered company.

    Unbelievable.
    ——————————————————————————————————————–

    Is McCoist engaging with Jambos Kickback?

    In any case, Leeds United were never liquidated. Middlesbrough were and changed their badge and added “& Athletic Club” to their title. Charlton seem to have reformed in 1984.

  3. iceman63 says:

    Jabba is a desperate and sick individual. All of his writings and utterances need to be seen in that light. He is of identical stature to Leggo. As such everything that he writes is warped and twisted by his own nihilistic desire to see the demise of Rangers precipitate the demise of Scottish football.

    For him, the SPL now holds no interest – only by injecting SEVCO as Rangers back in can he see any point in it. His projection of his own bitterness and loathing and anger apparently constitutes journalism for the Record. If his bosses had any sense ( they don’t) then he would be asked to leave as his only useful “contacts” were Jack’s Media House group and individuals within Rangers – and they are now deid, Their absurd and laughable tribute band are virtually deid.

    The man has no relevance anymore – he never had any intelligence but did have influence with the power of Murray’s Rangers behind him – but no more, His being tied to Murray and his own ego have left him a blubbery ( and seemingly blubbing ) washed-up whale – howling his piteous death notes. He will shortly be no more; Rangers ( Sevco version) will shortly be no more. The Record, I suspect, will shortly be no more – it is haemorrhaging both cash and readership.

    Hearts I firmly believe, will survive – Tynecastle stadium I firmly believe will not.

    Romanov has to take some kind of major hit if he wants shot – his only hope of salvaging cash being a sale of Tynecastle for development ( would have made 15 – 20 mill four or five years ago – but suspect a lot less now) Hearts will exit a CVA and rent Tynecastle from Vlad – for a season or two- until development and groundshare issues are resolved. They will then groundshare either with Hibs or more probably at Murrayfield. Murrayfield offers the lesser of two evils for the Hearts fans but presents logistical nightmares for fixture planners! Easter road is far more logical – rent would be cheaper – and it is a good compact redeveloped ground – but far less palatable to those in maroon.

  4. Charlie Brown says:

    McCoist not liking this post on JKB
    ===========================

    You are missing the point. I don’t give a **** about Crystal Palace. The club became the company. It is one entity. We are buying shares in Hearts Football Club. If we liquidate those shares are lost because Hearts football club ceases to exit. That is why all these efforts are being made to save the club. Otherwise what would be the point in pumping all that money into a company shell when we could just remove the club and put it somewhere else.

  5. Charlie Brown says:

    bobferris70 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:05

    Bob Iam not sure it’s actually ally mccoist although he’s calling himself mccoist365 if anything he actually reminds me of ‘adam’ from RTC fame/notoriety………anyway he’s well rehearsed in everything that legitimises ‘newco’ in his mind. 🙂

  6. bobferris70 says:

    Bob Iam not sure it’s actually ally mccoist although he’s calling himself mccoist365 if anything he actually reminds me of ‘adam’ from RTC fame/notoriety………anyway he’s well rehearsed in everything that legitimises ‘newco’ in his mind.

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-

    Ah right. Charlie Brown shouldn’t be saying McCoist then. I wasn’t really in The Likely Lads!

  7. broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 12:06

    No matter the result of Hearts current predicament, the MSM nomarks will use it as a shoehorn for their wet dream of The Loving Cup’s return to it’s reightful place at the sumit of Scottish Soccerball.

    No doubt some pretty powerful folks will be working feverishly behind the scenes to ensure that it happens: Conflicted Ogilvie, Donkey, Raygun, Chuckles, Jabba, Sandy Cartoon, MPs, MSPs etc etc.

    But it will be left to the most powerful person in Scottish football to determine how it’ll all play out.
    If you’re not aware who this person is,,,,,, go get your season ticket and hold it up to a mirror, that ugly mug you see staring back at you, there’s nobody more powerful, remember what you did in the summer!!
    ——————————————————————————–

    Yup its an attempt to ramp up the reconstruction argument on the fundamental basis that in order to survive Scottish football needs sectarianism as its basis to make it work. This of course flies in the face of the reality that sectarianism was the underlying cause of its failure, but hey lets not let reality poke its nose in.

    At club level the St Johnstone Chairman pointed at the root cause of club’s problems the other day, i.e players wages and the need for a wage ceiling. UEFA FFP provides the principles and formula for a wage ceiling that ALL national associations should adopt, but of course the EPL want their cake whilst eating ours and will not play ball. However God knows when that particular bubble will burst so the reconstruction argument will gather force..

    Ultimately it will be down to supporters to drive change by changing what we want to support – glory or community, although Celtic’s result the other night must have big club chairmen thinking – if Celtic on their budget can beat Barcelona and maybe qualify for the CL qrtr finals, why are we paying over the odds in wages?
    (Man City owners if they had brains should be asking.this its a Moneyball thing.On top of that Man City (again) should be asking why was our crowd so low and dead?)

    However everyone has to play their part not least the players who now “own” the game. It is time they and their agents became more soccer socially responsible.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kpMnLxNJhhK3i2dsLpd9oRHxjvDrS8GLGhNNVKEldRw/edit

  8. Charlie Brown says:

    iceman63 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:08

    Iceman if we can survive the season and stabilise the clubs financial position even if that means an administration event then one option might be to investigate a buy back or mortgage on tynecastle but that would probably be a couple of years down the line and the club would have to show financial discipline before any lender would consider it.

  9. Charlie Brown says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:18

    bobferris70 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:05

    Bob Iam not sure it’s actually ally mccoist although he’s calling himself mccoist365 if anything he actually reminds me of ‘adam’ from RTC fame/notoriety………anyway he’s well rehearsed in everything that legitimises ‘newco’ in his mind.
    ——————————-
    If he is well rehearsed in everything that legitimises ‘newco’ in his mind then its Adam. 🙂

  10. angus1983 says:

    Agrajag says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 13:49

    As stated earlier, I don’t see how re-structuring helps new Rangers.

    ——

    That’s an easy one. Stadium requirements.

  11. thespecialswon says:

    HMFC will simply ditch their debt, sell their assets, including the ground, history, trophies et al and carry on playing at Tynecastle, in maroon. Sure the playing squad will be compromised, relegation may well ensue but Hearts aren’t going to disappear completely, as there are sufficient Jambos, just as there are Bears, to maintain the survival of a football team.

    So, what, exactly, is the problem here?

    There’s continual scaremongering as we know, but the simple reality is what we’re witnessing here, as we did with The Rangers, is a specific correction in the marketplace, and the use of UK Corporate Law to ditch the bad, smelly, stuff and continue with all the good stuff. Obviously allowing for a compliant governing body.

  12. Agrajag says:

    I thought the minimum requirement had been scrapped or dropped.

    What for example is the capacity of Victoria Park. I thought it was only about 6,500, Caledonian Stadium as well, is that not about 8,000.

    Sorry if those figures are wrong.

  13. angus1983 says:

    Bit of light reading for a quiet (so far) Friday afternoon … Aberdeen Mad’s view of Shandy Sardine’s recent effort, wherein many of the thoughts that were possibly going through our own minds are articulated.

    I particularly liked this line: “At least Bummer Brown had the excuse the he is actually as thick as he looks.”

    🙂

    http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&sty=2&act=1&mid=2113814131

  14. Charlie Brown says:

    thespecialswon says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:45

    As I see it and posted earlier a ‘newco’ solution ala Sevco is probably the least likely option for a whole host of reasons. What is far more likely imo is a typical ‘administration’ event where costs are cut and assets sold or re-possessed to satisfy the creditors, primarily the secured creditor ie Romanov and we emerge from administration still largely intact and financially more viable although weakened by the loss of players & staff plus of course sporting sanctions meaning a minimum 18 points deduction almost double what Rangers got.

  15. angus1983 says:

    Agrajag says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:54

    I thought the minimum requirement had been scrapped or dropped.
    ——
    Aye, you could be right.

    However, with a re-organised League structure, I’m sure it could be re-introduced … if there were any particular reason for doing so. I can’t think of one myself, but maybe our Top Football Administrators could. 😉

  16. angus1983 says:

    jimlarkin2012 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:53

    ——
    8. Do the club and Charles Green support the scheme? What sort of discussions have you had about this?

    GS: Simple answer is yes. Our chairman and other RST board members are in regular contact with Charles Green and Imran Ahmed. On the 25th October Imran agreed the RST could buy shares as a group in the IPO. I think they are happy we are offering a service which will allow more people to invest and they see it as an opportunity to maximise the level of investment.
    ——

    I offer no further comment on this. Don’t need to, really. 🙂

  17. Charlie Brown says:

    To my Celtic supporting friends on here I know it’s a midweek match, televised and pre-xmas but if you guys could sell all your tickets for the forthcoming game at Tynecastle that would be greatly appreciated or if you can’t sell them then at least let us try to buy the unsold ones even if of course we couldn’t or wouldn’t be able to use them but it’s really important to us that we can sell out our upcoming home matches. 🙂

  18. It was Las Vegas Sands Inc who, in 2004, were announced as (-S)DM’s funder for £80million of the the £120million of the Ibrox SuperCasino on the site of the Albion Car Park.

  19. Agrajag says:

    The good chaps on follow follow think that Hearts fans would be ill advised putting their money into shares. Both have high post counts

    ====================================================

    Originally Posted
    Hearts fans should probably take some sort of stance regarding the share issue as it will just go straight into mad vlads pocket.

    he is doing them dry and they are taking it.
    That’s how I see it.

    —————–

    I don’t blame them for putting money in because they see it as a duty and the only way to save Hearts. No qualms with that, but the likelihood of it being anything other than a short-term fix at best is too high not to look at alternatives.

    No-one’s going to convince me he’s to be trusted with their club.

  20. Charlie Brown says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:57

    That sounds like what Motherwell did. Will it be enough for sustainable trading or should detaching yourselves from Romanov and Tynecastle not be in the thinking?

    For me what keeps clubs alive is not the stadium they play in but the support who believe in them. That is where the memory of history lies no matter what theh formal recognition of that history takes.

  21. goosygoosy says:

    Ihttp://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/184-buy-rangers-q-a
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Mmmmm…
    RST want fans to donate £125 (+£10 p.a. to retain membership of RST)
    All the £125 donations will be pooled and the RST(not the Donor) will then buy and own shares in “The Club”
    Meaning the Donor wont get any shares in return for his £125.He might get a warm fuzzy feeling in his tummy if he is really gullible. But if he doesnt keep paying the RST £10pa the warm fuzzy feeling will disappear

    it appears that
    For the purposes of liquidation the RST don`t consider a company to be “The Club”
    But
    For the purpose of the IPO the RST do consider a company to be “The Club”
    And it gets even more bizarre
    If a fan wants to own shares in “The Club” which cannot die he can invest a minimum of £500 in Sevco which can die
    And
    If he simply wants to make a donation to “The Club” he can give the RST £125 ,,,,,,,,,,
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    This sounds like a better wheeze for the RST than it is for Charlie Green
    £10 p.a for every member or he loses his “fan ownership” for which he gets no shares
    If the RST manage to raise the figure of £2.5m mentioned in this fairy story
    Thats £250k in perpetuityfor the RST
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    It must be true after all

    It takes one gullible person to recognise

  22. Agrajag says:

    So we think that the SFA / SPL / SFL will re-structure and will re-introduce a rule to suit one club and all of the other clubs, including any being disadvantaged will agree to this.

    It will have to be a total re-structure and not an extension of the SPL, as Rangers have no interest in that. Well Charles green doesn’t.

    We have seen a lot of amazing and corrupt thing done to the benefit of one, new club. However that would surely take the biscuit. Total re-structuring of Scottish football, with old rules being re-applied, just to suit them.

  23. andysuthy says:

    jimlarkin2012 @14:53

    http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/184-buy-rangers-q-a

    ————————

    “For example if we raised £2.5m and the club is valued at £25m the Buy Rangers campaign would then own 10% of Rangers Football Club.”

    I thought the new club was worth at least £80M?

  24. iceman63 says:

    Reconstyruction is a kite that won’t fly – just Jabba talking out of his rear. It makes no sense. the prime objective of all involved at present ought to be trying to ensure Hearts survive.

    Their owner has simply run out of cash and his past is coming back to haunt him – I reckon. how Hearts fans do this is the issue. Will Romanov be better off allowing the tax man to liquidate and then using his floating charge to take back whatefer he can of his debt with an assets sale. If this is the case then hearts are in very big bother.

    Except, of course , a new Hearts can be formed once someone sets them up and Hearts licence can be transferred to them. Priniple established – clubs are as of now immortal. In which case they will be allowed to see out the rest of the season with a pool of youths presumably to avoid fixture catastrophe – take a relegation to div 3 and re-emerge as new Hearts.

    Liquidations all round I reckon . If your club can survive it and emerge debt free – why not!.

    The downside of course is that no club in Scotland will ever be given any lines of credit from anyone ever – and all of those that have can expect to see them called in PDQ.

    Perhaps this is why Vlad has stayed schtum – he is awaiting a precedent to be established that he can now follow.

    Stinks as much as Rangers frankly! And remember the First minister is a Hearts fan!

  25. thespecialswon says:

    Charlie Brown says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:57

    I take your point and bow to your superior knowledge, but it is unclear, to me anyway, how you continue playing at Tynecastle in the scenario you describe.

  26. iceman63 says:

    Rangers trust thing absolute desperation – SEVCO can’t float on the AIM – they don’t meet the criteria – they can’t raise enough in a private share issue from those with 500 quid to spend so now they are trying to squeeze the pennies out of those fans with least money. The end is nigh – this will raise less than a million – the share issue 4-5 mill tops – not enough. They have expenses of twenty million income of 11 -12 mill – SEVCO are going down!!!!
    I will say by February at latest

  27. Danish Pastry says:

    Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 13:11
    57 0 Rate This
    Good Afternoon …
    ————

    A thoroughly insightful, thought-provoking and balanced read. Bravo.

  28. Charlie Brown says:

    thespecialswon says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 15:56

    Unless we were evicted then we’d have to rent or make mortgage payments. Romanov to be fair has said he is puting no more new money in however he hasn’t stated he intends to start taking money out or try to make money from Hearts. Put it this way it’s been costing him a small fortune every season just keeping us afloat so if we can get to cost neutral he’s actually saving himself millions per year in subsidising losses.

    Of course at some point he will look to sever all ties. At that point we either have to be able to buy the club as a whole or cut him some deal over the stadium/debt. The alternative is Murrayfield which simply puts us back to where we were in 2004.

    i think Romanov’s over-riding concern about Hearts at this moment is they immediately stop costing him money.

  29. Charlie Brown says:

    Another thing that might help Hearts at least in the short term is Romanov probably wants to avoid having to crystalise very big losses if he was forced into an asset sale or liquidation. As long as it’s not costing him money he can theoretically keep the debt on his books and avoid having to realise a massive haircut on the debt.

  30. Danish Pastry says:

    Charlie Brown says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 16:19
    ———
    Was intrigued by your reference to this thread:

    http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/120048-would-you-support-a-newco-hearts/page__st__50

    Had a read through. Well said Charlie.

  31. wjohnston1 says:

    Ordinaryfan.
    I am sorry but you have lost me.
    Could you explain where your multiple posts re Sands are going, or even coming from.
    Apologies if you have posted an explanation. I must have missed it.

  32. Iceman63
    You think Feb 2013 for that Duff&Duffer will be back in, will lightning strike twice and will it be on the 14th Feb, spooky ,also ,Sardines Masquerade Ballsup ,it would be interesting to ask everyone who who takes part in the p[Ch]arade if they believe whether its a memorial or what ,can some of the msm ask them afterwards ,we should be told.And to show I am not biased I hope they have a nice day whatever the celebration.

  33. Agrajag says:

    Charlie Brown says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 16:29

    ==================

    That’s the problem with the administration and CVA as I see it.

    Is Mr Romanov’s bank relying on the debt as an asset on their books to make their own position look better. A pennies in the pound CVA would wipe that out.

  34. abcott says:

    If all these Las Vegas Sands (xxxxx) Co’s were set up in preparation for Super casinos in the event of licences being issued, we could expect there to be very little in the way of accounts or activity.

    Anyone have any of that info?

    My expectation would be that none of the subsidiaries ever actually traded.

  35. ordinaryfan says:

    I would love to hear the opinion of someone like Higher Pursuit, RTC, Barcabhoy, Paul Mconville or BRTH. I have no idea what it all means because I’m just not that clever. Just seems to me to be the link a few of the more learned posters and bloggers were looking for.

  36. Agrajag says:

    ordinaryfan says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 17:21

    =======================

    It certainly seems to seem odd to you.

  37. ordinaryfan says:

    abcott: Their Online Gaming and Gambling companies would be the best bet there.

  38. ordinaryfan says:

    Agrajag: But not you?

  39. ordinaryfan says:

    Agrajag: Andrew Ellis’ company World Link Group also linked. Another coincidence?

  40. abcott says:

    Suppose you are right, OF.
    What is the mechanism?

  41. twopanda says:

    Has anyone ever tested the viability of another casino in Glasgow, as stand-alone or part of an hotel, or with planning permissions, or with existing operators, in that part of the City – or at 80-120m for the privilege?

    Now let`s look at the Super Casino as in the Far East and American models – supported by huge conurbations and vast tourist infrastructure. One of those at Ibrox? – supported by the West of Scotland nouveau riche

    Am I missing something? Well no – it was nonsense from the start and it’s still nonsense as practical.
    Although allowing the story “out there” obviously has had it uses for personages over the years.

  42. Agrajag says:

    ordinaryfan says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 17:27

    ===========================

    Not what you have posted, no.

    I personally think that just now you are doing the 6 degrees of separation thing.

    Did you not at one point also include ICAS, on the basis that accountants would be members of that organisation, therefore they must be in the thick of it.

    I think you also need to consider what type of money laundering you are suggesting. Is it additional cash coming into the club being laundered (placement). Is it people laundering the proceeds of other businesses by obtaining shares in the club (layering or integration). Is it people assisting others to retain the proceeds of their criminal conduct, or is it own funds laundering.

    So, no not really. Just now all I think you are doing is making loads of links and putting them together under the umbrella term of “money laundering”.

    I’m not saying that Rangers (old and new) aren’t or weren’t being used as part of a money laundering process. I think there is every prospect they might have been. I just haven’t seen a great deal of evidence to that effect. Though I can think of ways it may have been done.

    Malcolm Cohen does specialise in cross border investigations though.

  43. ordinaryfan says:

    abcott: No idea whatsoever I’m afraid, as I say, that is for far more intelligent people than me.

  44. StevieBC says:

    Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:34

    Charlie Brown says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:18

    bobferris70 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 14:05


    If he is well rehearsed in everything that legitimises ‘newco’ in his mind then its Adam.
    ============================

    I thought Adam was in a submarine or visiting ‘the land with no internet’ ?

    Is he back then ? 🙄

  45. ordinaryfan says:

    Agrajag: I admit my limitations on this, maybe you could have a look. Ten minutes on google will give you a wealth of information and connections. Then you could make your own mind up.

  46. ordinaryfan says:

    twopanda: I expect that’s why they are building it in Madrid. Maybe the scouting party of 2004 were just making “friends” for when the Super Casino does open.

  47. Agrajag says:

    ordinaryfan says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 17:44

    Agrajag: I admit my limitations on this, maybe you could have a look. Ten minutes on google will give you a wealth of information and connections. Then you could make your own mind up.

    =============================

    I take it you are joking, or haven’t read my last post.

  48. ordinaryfan says:

    Agrajag: Yeah something like that.

  49. Danish Pastry says:

    ordinaryfan says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 17:39
    0 0 Rate This
    abcott: No idea whatsoever I’m afraid, as I say, that is for far more intelligent people than me.
    ————-

    It’s certainly interesting given some recent tweets from leading lights on this story, but it shouldn’t become another Guidi-hope thingymajig. That was the most embarrassing episode this blog has seen in its short existence. If this story does have legs I’m sure someone, somewhere will be onto it.

  50. blindsummit63 says:

    Then again, if you were one of those who went to Jersey for your dinner just to ensure that you were towing the Murray line
    ___________________________________________
    BRTH, yet another superb post. Would it be churlishly pedantic of me to suggest that you meant toeing the line, not towing the line?

  51. MikeC says:

    If the press are to believed Armageddon is not far off. One dead club and maybe another about to go. Although I hope not and that Hearts find a way out of the mess.
    The blame for the position of Scottish football lies with two major players and their lackies.

    Firstly the esteemed SFA Chairman (CO) is it just bad luck or what but this man was in a senior position with both RFC(IL) and at Hearts. He obviously lead both these clubs in a manner which compares with his tenure at the SFA – and we all know how he has performed there. WHY IS THIS MAN STILL IN OFFICE ? For the sake of our (the fans) game inwhich we have invested soo much HE MUST GO NOW no ifs or buts. MR. O GO NOW !!

    Secondly the former Rangers Chairman and owner – (S)DM. He is to blame for the current financial state of the game. He upped the anti a decade ago and the rest of the Clubs attempted to follow suit, only a handful of Clubs realised this would lead to ruin and eventually held back.
    Not only did this individual set wages at such a high level , a level that was not sustainable in the Scottish game, he then brought on board the media to hoodwink the supporters into a false sense of security. These same media people still support him to this day. They to have been complicit in the downfall of the game. They may well loose their jobs, and I for one will not lose any sleep over that.

    There are many and varied views about the “back room deals” etc and I have no doubt the truth lies in there somewhere, The ordinary fan only wants to support his team on a level playing field and may the best team win.However since no one especially the press are not prepare to publish the truth the fan is left not knowing who or what to believe.

    The only solution I see is for the whole game to start again get rid of the SFA committees and the SPL/SFL – the blazers must go !! Only when there is a total clear out then the game will find its own level and we can move forward.

    Finally as a Celtic supporter if the game in Scotland implodes I hope the CFC board would look to getting into the league in England I am sure they would now be only to pleased to welcome us, especially after last Wednesday night.

  52. Charlie Brown says:

    StevieBC says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 17:43

    Stevie if it’s not him then it’s someone awfy awfy like him, unrelenting in pushing the same propaganda and point of view, did admit that Rangers deserved to be punished but stopped short of saying what that should be …….. also ignored all discussions about complicity/cheating by Rangers officials and went back to promoting the legitimacy of the newco option. 🙂

  53. Charlie Brown says:

    MikeC says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:06

    Mikey as great a result as Celtic achieved on wednesday i don’t think it matters a jot to Celtic’s chances of ever getting to play in England. There is simply more clubs down there with ambitions and votes to dine at the top table themselves that would always vote to keep you (and any Scottish team) out. It would be additional competition they would neither welcome nor want imo.

  54. madbhoy24941 says:

    paulmac2 says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 12:05

    ————————————————–

    Comment of the day so far Paul, short, sweet and effective!

  55. MikeC says:

    Charlie Brown says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:10

    I at no time said we would be welcomed into the top tier of English football but the lower leagues would be. You only need to recall that when a player in England has a testimonial their first port of call is Celtic, because of their fan base and those fans do not carry any baggage. Money always talks as we know only too well in the current climate in Scotland,

    I also said that if the game in Scotland was to implode – ie no Scottish game. Sky etc would put pressure on them to allow Celtic in.

  56. ClashCityRockers says:

    Should we not issue a warning for certain MSM journalists when quoting articles or paragraphs from articles. For example.

    “Incoming Jabba Jobby read at your peril”.

  57. Charlie Brown says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:10

    Mikey as great a result as Celtic achieved on wednesday i don’t think it matters a jot to Celtic’s chances of ever getting to play in England. There is simply more clubs down there with ambitions and votes to dine at the top table themselves that would always vote to keep you (and any Scottish team) out. It would be additional competition they would neither welcome nor want imo.
    —————————————-
    Completely agree. It would be the geese that lay the golden eggs voting for Christmas (to mangle a metaphor but you get the gist I hope)

  58. Agrajag says:

    I personally do not believe that Celtic will play in a league outside of Scotland in my lifetime. Neither do I want them to. A Scottish club playing in Scotland suits me just fine.

    However if people have not learned through the Rangers case that conventional beliefs can be wrong, or that situations can change then maybe they should re-think things a bit.

    Rangers will never go into administration.
    HMRC will agree a CVA
    They will take something rather than nothing.
    Rangers will never go into liquidation, people would simply not let it happen.

    We have seen all of that to be wrong. Rangers were sold for £1, they went into administration within a year and have now been liquidated.

    Things change.

  59. Danish Pastry says:

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/video/1957731163001/

    Pretty candid interview on the Hearts situation (apologies if posted already). Kind of encouraging.

  60. MikeC says:

    Agrajag says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:41

    I agree , I do not want Celtic to play outside Scotland but if it is true that Armageddon is upon us what other options would our major teams have. They will need to look to another format either within Scotland or Europe and as you say “Things Change”

  61. timtim says:

    You can forget Celtic or any other Scottish club playing in England at any level
    Only special circumstances are taken into consideration by Uefa when allowing clubs to play
    outwith their national borders, and the desire to make more money isnt one of them.
    Personally even if it was feasible I would hate to see it happen

  62. Agrajag says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:29
    ============================
    From KDS in June:
    Bravheart Promotions is run by Barry Hughes, the notorious “boxing promoter”.
    The guy offering to pump £1million-plus into Brown’s takeover bid is “boxing promoter” Jonathan Hope.
    Hope was spokesman for failed takeover bids for Raith Rovers and Queen of the South that were linked to Media Pro Sports and notorious “boxing promoter” Stevie Vaughan.*

    *see Curtis ‘Cocky’ Warren.

  63. MikeC says:

    timtim says:

    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:48

    Would the fact that Scottish football had imploded and the Scottish game was no longer be a “special case” At no time did I mention moving to England for financial reasons. I do however agree I would rather have Celtic playing in Scotland, however if that is not possible under the situation I describe , as I said previously all the major clubs left would need to look to see where they could play. The SFA is a dead man walking !!

  64. Agrajag says:

    TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 18:53

    =====================

    I think it’s censorship time again. Only some conspiracy theories allowed. Ones with proven links and evidence of those links don’t seem to be acceptable.

    Even if all they are doing is posting material freely available on the net. Including videos made by the people themselves, and posed photographs.

  65. ghirl1888 says:

    iceman63 on Friday, November 9, 2012 at 16:00
    35 3 Rate This
    Rangers trust thing absolute desperation – SEVCO can’t float on the AIM – they don’t meet the criteria – they can’t raise enough in a private share issue from those with 500 quid to spend so now they are trying to squeeze the pennies out of those fans with least money. The end is nigh – this will raise less than a million – the share issue 4-5 mill tops – not enough. They have expenses of twenty million income of 11 -12 mill – SEVCO are going down!!!!
    I will say by February at latest

    ————————————–

    Another valentines day special?? ❤ 🙂

  66. timtim says:

    Mike there really would need to be Armageddon before it was entertained by Uefa
    ie: the inability to form a pro league or serious security issues
    but we are talking Lichtenstein Andorra or Derry City situations
    I hope we are a long way away from that

  67. bobferris70 says:

    In any case, Leeds United were never liquidated. Middlesbrough were and changed their badge and added “& Athletic Club” to their title. Charlton seem to have reformed in 1984.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    Puzzled at the number of TUs, were the facts wrong?

  68. verselijkfc says:

    Charlie Brown says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 15:06

    Charlie, speaking from personal and very much past experience, Tyncastle, for all the abuse, is one of my favourite places to visit as a Celtic fan; a proper, scary, intense, football ground (wonderful place to win; horrible place to lose 🙂 ). Don’t think you’ll have too many probelms selling the tickets.

  69. monsieurbunny says:

    Agrajag says:
    Friday, November 9, 2012 at 15:34

    So we think that the SFA / SPL / SFL will re-structure and will re-introduce a rule to suit one club and all of the other clubs, including any being disadvantaged will agree to this.
    ————————————————————————————————–

    I don’t believe they can manage it one one go. They will be forced to make them stay in the lower divisions for at least one more year.

    Consider: there are 12 teams in the SPL who fulfill all the requirements. Then there are the following teams in division 1: Airdrie; Dunfermline; Fakirk;Hamilton; Livingstone; Raith Rovers; Thistle.

    That’s 7 teams in a higher position than T’Rangers, all who have seating for 6,000 plus.IN fact apart from Hamilton the rest (except Falkirk who are very nearly there) have the 10,000 or more capacity required under the old rules (which BTW caused some clubs big financial efforts to comply with) and some even have stuff like under soil heating.

    So that would mean they’d have to either introduce ridiculous rules like “wearing blue shirts with a TRFC crest” and “being managed by dog-whistle McCoist” or else have a division of 20 clubs. That would leave 22 clubs for the other division.

    Yes, you could do it but it would be such an obvious fix (done with no consideration at all of what would be good for the game) it would have all the (non TRFC) fans up in arms. And there are other more pragmatic reasons against it.

    First such a big division would mean surely only one Celtic/TRFC game a season, half what they had in the old setup. Then big TV money would be spread amongst more clubs, less for everyone.
    And then the 2nd division clubs would be up in arms at not getting their chance at the TRFC bonanza (whether it really is or not many probably believe the propaganda).

    And on top of that, though many clubs voted for the right thing last time because of fan pressure, a good number did because they believed it the right thing. They would vote against this and some of the others would too if only because of their fans.

    This time some of those clubs likely to benefit – the ones mentioned above – would be sorely tempted to agree but one is Raith Rovers and the others had significant fan pressure to vote to put TRFC into the lowest division. I think there are enough who for selfish reasons or who do want reformation (sorry you ‘tic guys) to only have it done if it’s done properly.

    Finally I’m not saying the guys like Regan, Ogilvy, Doncaster and some club chairmen wouldn’t like to put the fix in, just that they’ll probably know they can get away with it – at least with not as much as they’d like to.