Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?
Monday, September 10, 2012 1,816 Comments
Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.
For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.
The relevant rules are as follows:
Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.
Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.
Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.
Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.
Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.
“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
…
“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.
…
“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission? Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all? No. They did absolutely nothing.
“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.
“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.
“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.
…
“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.
“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.
…
“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?
“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.
…
“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.
“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.
“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.
“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”
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Have a read through these edited highlights once again…
The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.
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Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.
If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.
I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.
As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!
I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.
Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.
What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-
“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs. As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”
What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…
No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.
As I said, it is brilliant!
He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!
And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!
However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?
Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?
As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!
Posted by Paul McConville
Scottish Football Monitor 
Independent Commission Preliminary Hearing
The Commission has considered all the preliminary issues raised in the list submitted by Newco and points raised in letters from solicitors acting for Newco and for Oldco. It has decided:
1. The Commission will proceed with its inquiry in the terms of the Notice of Commission and will now set a date for a hearing and give directions.
2. Oldco and Rangers FC, who are named in the Issues contained in the Notice of Commission and alleged to have been in breach of SPL rules, will continue to have the right to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such submissions as they think fit.
3. Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC, although not alleged by the SPL to have committed any breach of SPL Rules, will also have the right to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such submissions as it thinks fit.
4. Written reasons for this decision will be made available in due course.
Further to the decision made today the Commission make the following procedural orders:
1. We set a date for a hearing to commence on Tuesday 13 November 2012 with continuations from day to day as may be required until Friday 16 November 2012. We will also allocate Tuesday 20 and Wednesday 21 November 2012 as additional dates should any further continuation be required.
2. We direct that the solicitors for The Scottish Premier League Limited lodge any documents, additional to those already lodged, together with an outline argument and a list of witnesses by 4 pm on Friday 19 October 2012.
3. We direct that Oldco, Newco or any other person claiming an interest and wishing to appear and be represented at the hearing give intimation to that effect and lodge any documents together with an outline argument and a list of witnesses, all by 4 pm on Thursday 1 November 2012.
4. We direct that intimation of the aforesaid decision and of these directions be made to the solicitors for Oldco and Newco.
No further comment will be made.
http://www.scotprem.com/content/defa…2&newsid=11698
Wonder who will be the PM when the truth comes out about ………rfc(iastbil) sevco, green, whyte, sdm etc etc etc………!!!!
sorry, should be
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11698
jammy dodger says:
September 12, 2012 at 15:11
31 2 i Rate This
I can say, without even being a lawyer, but with absolute certainty, that being the director of a company which continues to trade while you know it is insolvent, is a criminal offence. A very hard one to prove, though
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Jammy Dodger…thank you for your most timeous post…I was about to post a general comment re the “trading whilst insolvent” position when I read your post.
I have just commenced reading PMG’s book and his first full chapter (Part 1: finance) mentions this state of insolvency on quite a few occasions.
It is indeed a particularly difficult concept/position to prove, that a director or directors, continued to trade, knowing full well that they had no assets to cover liabilities, and that nothing was “on the horizon” to indicate otherwise.
I cannot recall a case in my short life where a material case was taken to court and “trading whilst insolvent”, as I remember a criminal charge (?), was proved.
Also, bearing in mind the current contraints of all government departments, I cannot see any likelihood of such a case being brought before the courts, and I am saddened by that.
In the meantime, it merely appears to be a “legal concept” that we “internet bampots” can flag up, albeit retrospectively, but with little prospect of any corrective action being taken.
Finally…I would dearly love to be proven to be totally wrong in this area!
ELC says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:00
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#Rangers hearing to commence on 13th November and last until 21st November. Oldco and newcomer invited invited to appear.
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So the prima facia eveidence announced on the 18th June will be heard on the 13th November, where a liquidated club and another clubs representatives will be asked to attend, how strange.!
I imagine that the liquidators, BDO, will be in situ by then and will be unable to answer any questions regarding any of this, which they won’t be able to do, or will come as a creditor cost.
The newcomer meanwhile will state they have never been members of the SPL and no nothing of the working or rules of the SPL. None of the directors of this club were involved in the old club either, well excpet CG anyway.
Massive cover up has started. This will be over a year since Mark Daly aired his documentary on Rangers, shocking.
WOTTPI says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:22
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Re Downfall and Amazon.
Is it not just the case that the publishers only did a limited print run and Amazon have already sent out their quota as provided by their suppliers..
Afterall it is not just fans of non Govan teams that are buying it up.
Circa 32 growling bears have apparently bought and read the book and managed to write a review.
Interesting to note that the reviews to date are polar opposites (5 star -12 or 1 star -32 and nothing in between).
Even the books on the Israel/Palestine conflict have a range of reviews.
Only in Scotland!!!
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WOTTPI….I have just had my copy delivered to my local bookshop in NE London/Essex borders and no conspiracy theories offered by the owner re distribution problems.
However, I did explain to her re the “keeping it under the shelf” mentality in Glasgow, and being a Scots lass who studied at Strathclyde University, she gave me an all too-knowing look/shrug of the shoulders….!
Need I say more…?
So the commision think the club and the company are 2 distinct entities, Oldco, Newco are the comanies, Rangers FC are the club.
Does the SPL registration pertain to clubs or companies??
I thought all players were registered with the club, therefore the company has nothing to do with this.
They are protecting the rights here of NEWCO brand Rangers, shambles.
2. Oldco and Rangers FC, who are named in the Issues contained in the Notice of Commission and alleged to have been in breach of SPL rules, will continue to have the right to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such submissions as they think fit.
3. Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC,
“Oldco and Rangers FC…..”
“Newco, as current owner and operator of Rangers FC….”
Neil, Neil, Neil………….did D&P write that for you?
The con is on!……I have no financial or legal training whatsoever but know this stinks to high heavens ……… Meanwhile CO still in situ apparently doing no work but still being paid?????
smallteaser says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:22
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Essex beancounter says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:04
http://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/
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Smallteaser…thank you…and here is me thinking that when I tried to teach double entry bookeeping to solicitors, albeit in Englandshire, my head used to hurt, alleviated only by many and rapid infusions of life restoring red wine!
I suggest no more OT excursions lest we be barred by the Mods!
Brenda says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:11
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Wonder who will be the PM when the truth comes out about ………rfc(iastbil) sevco, green, whyte, sdm etc etc etc………!!!!
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My bet is Romeo Beckham or Lord Hodge’s grandson !
paul martin says:
“Oldco and Rangers FC…..”
“Newco, as current owner and operator of Rangers FC….”
Neil, Neil, Neil………….did D&P write that for you?
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Indeed.
So they double down on the fiction that there is an etheral body called Rangers that can be transferred between companies. A body that has no legal standing whatsoever, beacuse it doesn’t exist!
We would be suffering none of this Sevco nonsense, if the SFA, SPL and SFL had declared right from the start that Rangers were dead when they go into liquidation, and that Sevco were a NEW CLUB!
Still, despite all the threats, intimidation and arrogance spewed forth by the Sevconians, the weasels in the SPL and SFA won’t tell the truth and finally slay the beast. They will suffer any indignity to support the very monster that publically proclaims it’s hate and disdain for them! Stockholm Syndrome multipled.
And thanks to them I will never put another penny into Scottish football. I bought some Raith Rovers merchandise to thank them and Turnbull Hutton on their stance, but that’s it. I am sad to say my SPL club Hibs, and their Chairman Rod Petrie are fully complicit in supporting this scam, so they have lost my support. Rod seems to see supporting Sevco as more of a priority in fixing Hibs problems so why should I care?
I really, really hope Green follows through on his court threast bluster. Let’s see him try to prove “rangers” exists as a separate body when under sworn oath and forensic legal examination. Bring it on.
Essex beancounter says: NE London/EssexBorders.
I live in Wanstead. You near there?
Angus says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:07
0 0 Rate This
HirsutePursuit says:
I think they list the history of the brand – but they also are clear that they are not the original company. The are honest in saying that they simply purchased the brand.
——–
There lies the rub. They’re clear they’re not the original company. But it’s by no means clear that they think the “brand” does not own the history.
“A few years later, in 1924, he designed the 14/28 Super Sports model, the first true MG, and the car that premiered the octagonal logo which has journeyed with us ever since.”
“Us”, of course, could refer to all of us, not just the company, or the “entity” (MG).
However, their “Philosophy” page makes things a little clearer …
“We’ve been putting the fun into driving for over 85 years and the MG6 shows that we’ve lost none of that ability to produce cars where performance and price make you smile in equal measure.”
Seems pretty clear cut to me. They bought the brand. They claim, and actively use as a selling point, the history of the little octagonal badge.
I wish you hadn’t mentioned MGs in the first place. Actually, we have one ourselves – a ZT. But I don’t think of it as a “real” MG myself.
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Brand identity is all about perceptions – the Rangers brand has a history and Sevco want their customers to believe that they are part of that history. I cannot fault the logic and his motives in doing so.
Mr Green wants his customers to believe that their club’s history continues with his new company in the same way that SAIC suggest that their kit-car MG’s are evolved from the cars last manufactured in Britain by Rover Group. Yes, SAIC do use the word “we” and “us” when referring back to the history of the previous company; but they also acknowledge that it was only the brand that was purchased. They make no claim to purchasing the original company.
If Charlie simply swapped the word “club” with “brand” many more of his statements would make sense.
Using the word “club”, when he should be saying “brand” is arrant nonsense in literal terms; but, for the brand identity purposes of Sevco, he is saying exactly what he wants to say to his customers.
ongtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 15:50
Fergus said before he even took over that his aim was to invest in the club to save it, work to a five year plan to put it on a sound commercial footing and then leave having made a profit for his efforts.
Unlike many others he did everything he said he would – good luck to him I say
….and I too have some “worthless” shares but don’t regret a penny.
jockybhoy says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:47
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Essex beancounter says: NE London/EssexBorders.
I live in Wanstead. You near there?
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Yup….know The George only too well….my office is just up the road.. a mile or so towards Epping…got to be discrete or ICAS will “rumble” me…!
Just because you’re paranoid…… says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:55
0 0 Rate This
longtimelurker says:
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I know what Fergus said mate and I knew that when i bought some of his shares and I’m still a MUG for buying them because not one brown penny went to Celtic but I knew what I was doing and I have regretted it ever since.
Getting a bit too close now Davie boy.
http://news.sky.com/story/984290/exclusive-ex-hbos-exec-gets-huge-fine-and-ban
Surrender No Johnston states
” “the SFA wrote to us asking for more details about the public speculation concerning our financial and tax situation. The latter obviously referenced the impact of the EBT schemes as creating a potential taxation liability.”
“The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc., but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust. The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation.”
They declared salaries, bonus’s, benefits etc. – I take it these matched up to what was in the contract submitted to the SFA/SPL?
Also, payments made to a remuneration trust – did you state who these payments were for and were they included in the amounts stated in the players contracts? Or were you simply saying RFC made payments into a trust and that it was those payments that were subject to HMRC’s tax investigation – a separate issue from player registrations and related to the HMRC case.
Why did the SFA contact you? The SFA wanted clarification that there were no outstanding tax issues. They weren’t looking at player registration issues at that time of “public speculation” Once again, RFC seem to want to link the 2 things together when they are not actually related. The “non disclosed payments” issue followed long after they contacted the club in 2010
However, he states “The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation.”
so, the EBT’s WERE used for player compensation….they MUST have known? So, case closed for HMRC, AJ has just confirmed that the EBT contributions WERE for player compensation – so, that’ll be £54M then – including interest and penalties please.
Oh but wait, if players were paid through EBT’s – something they are not a suitable vehicle for – then even if you did include every single penny in the players contracts lodged with the SFA/SPL, then you have failed to pay all social taxes due….So you should never had had a license to participate in UEFA competitions – so, i reckon that is about 5 years worth of UEFA money you owe Celtic (who were second) £75M should cover it please
Oh sorry, whats that, you didn’t include those amounts paid via an ebt in the contracts lodged with the SFA, as you’d have had to pay tax on them? OK, well then the players were illegally registered, so that’ll be at least 5 titles, £75M in compo to celtic (not to mention the SPL prize money and compo to teams relegated) and, as it WAS wages, HMRC will have their £54M please
THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP AJ.
Blindsummit / Paul Martin says
It does look that way, however it might also be that they are differentiating between the various owners/operators of ‘Rangers FC’ in order to ensure that it is ‘Rangers FC’ i.e. the club that is judged. Would this be in keeping with UEFA / FIFA definitions?
There will be differences in liability for the various individuals / controlling minds that operated the club, and focusing on one of these regimes to the exclusion on another might not catch all the various shenanigans that may exist or have existed over time. Similarly lumping the various regimes together would also make it more difficult to assign any responsibility or blame, and make any appedal or other recourse more likely.
I’m more comfortable with this, assuming I’m on the right track.
The date set might have also been chosen to allow time for them to see the results of the FTT if it is indeed out in October. I’m sure internet bampots everywherre will be able to highlight any pertinent issues that might be in there and try to get them in the public domain before the panel meet.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
2 0 i Rate This
Surrender No Johnston states
” “the SFA wrote to us asking for more details about the public speculation concerning our financial and tax situation. The latter obviously referenced the impact of the EBT schemes as creating a potential taxation liability.”
“The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc., but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust. The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation.”
They declared salaries, bonus’s, benefits etc. – I take it these matched up to what was in the contract submitted to the SFA/SPL?
Also, payments made to a remuneration trust – did you state who these payments were for and were they included in the amounts stated in the players contracts? Or were you simply saying RFC made payments into a trust and that it was those payments that were subject to HMRC’s tax investigation – a separate issue from player registrations and related to the HMRC case.
Why did the SFA contact you? The SFA wanted clarification that there were no outstanding tax issues. They weren’t looking at player registration issues at that time of “public speculation” Once again, RFC seem to want to link the 2 things together when they are not actually related. The “non disclosed payments” issue followed long after they contacted the club in 2010
However, he states “The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation.”
so, the EBT’s WERE used for player compensation….they MUST have known? So, case closed for HMRC, AJ has just confirmed that the EBT contributions WERE for player compensation – so, that’ll be £54M then – including interest and penalties please.
Oh but wait, if players were paid through EBT’s – something they are not a suitable vehicle for – then even if you did include every single penny in the players contracts lodged with the SFA/SPL, then you have failed to pay all social taxes due….So you should never had had a license to participate in UEFA competitions – so, i reckon that is about 5 years worth of UEFA money you owe Celtic (who were second) £75M should cover it please
Oh sorry, whats that, you didn’t include those amounts paid via an ebt in the contracts lodged with the SFA, as you’d have had to pay tax on them? OK, well then the players were illegally registered, so that’ll be at least 5 titles, £75M in compo to celtic (not to mention the SPL prize money and compo to teams relegated) and, as it WAS wages, HMRC will have their £54M please
THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP AJ.
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NTHMC….wickedly brilliant.
Not even Ian Hislop at Private Eye, mooted by some on this site as someone to do some more exposure bon this whole sordid affair, could have exceeded your caustic comments…superb piece!
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#SPL have investigated claims that #Celtic may have had side contract with Juninho but say there is no case to answer.
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Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
In light of Charles Green’s comments about other club’s using EBT’s, #SPL are asking for anyone with proof to come forward.
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Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
Thats the point isn’t it.
At no time in this sorry tale have I ever heard anything eminating from Ibrox that leads me to believe they are not guility of the two charges 1) Mismanagement of the EBT scheme and 2) Improper player registration.
This is further backed up by the evidence provided by RTC and Mark Daly.
At the very least they will be found out on one of the two issues and most likely will be nabbed for both.
More a Cuckfield Bhoy myself, George went downhill when it got Wetherspooned!
what about an investigation into the NEWCO players being wrongly registered?
players being temporary registered – or rather – temporary membership of SFA !?
no such accredited registration status going by the rules, so by definition – they were wrongly registered.
if there is a temporary status…we could have a list of maybe 4 clubs, who could have 3months membership on a rotation basis, allowing sevco to play glamour friendlies when they’re on a rotation break ?
Message from the now failed St.Mirren buy out bid.
Back to the drawing board….now, who wants to buy an SPL team
10000Hours Statement
On behalf of the 1000+ members of 10000hours we would like to express our disappointment that we have been unable to conclude the deal to purchase the majority shareholding in St Mirren Football Club for its fans.
We made the very best sustainable and deliverable offer we could, based on the substantial backing we received from our members.
That offer was for £1.25 million, to be paid over a 3 year period.
We would like to make it clear that none of our major backers had any doubts about the concept.
While it is now time to end our bid for the controlling interest in our football club, our formal offer remains open indefinitely should the selling consortium have a change of heart.
We wish the club every success both on and off the park and again would like to thank everyone who backed the bid for their tremendous support.
Roland Brown on September 12, 2012 at 17:28
Assuming that there is no further evidence of EBT use – will the SFA do a fit and propper person test on CG.
Its not sporting to make such accusations esp if they are totally unfounded.
Roland Brown says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:28
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
In light of Charles Green’s comments about other club’s using EBT’s, #SPL are asking for anyone with proof to come forward.
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Ah Ha, finally a little bit of gumption shown by the SPL.
The only person with this apparent information is Mr Charles. However he has dismissed the SPL as being a Mickey Mouse organisation.
If he is a honest and open as he claimed in his bbc radio interview “Honesty is the best policy” then surely he will come forward, justify his claims and provide the authorities with the necessary information.
If he doesn’t trust the SPL then he has FIFA, UEFA, SFA and SFL to whom he can pass on this important information.
Finally someone is saying to Charlie Boy “Put up or Shut Up”
PS
Given the none too subtle SPL challenge to Mr Charles and the Roger Mitchell piece in the Herald are there signs that the worm is finally summoning up enough courage to turn?
I really really hope so 🙂 but I doubt it 😦
jockybhoy says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:37
0 1 i Rate This
More a Cuckfield Bhoy myself, George went downhill when it got Wetherspooned!
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I know it too well because it was at one time the “meeting place” for all the young ladies from Forest School…better not go any further!
Your comment re Weatherspoon is noted and agreed…now on my personal “Bhoycott” list!
I cut and paste a comment from todays Herald under the Roger Mitchell story.
Methinks the boy gets it but just can’t bring himself to publicly admit it that his old club is dead and has cheated.
However what he says from a Rangers fans point of view with regards to looking forward is perhaps the most sensible thing I have heard for a while albeit slightly spoiled by the counter conspiracy paragraph at the end.
Of course wee sorry would be nice but at least it is an honest view from a football fan hoping the club he now supports will succeed in the future.
“As a Rangers fan what if we say The Rangers Football Club plc is dead and died with 54 titles 5 of which might be stripped. On the other hand The Rangers Football Club Ltd has no titles or cups and are starting 100% fresh. Does it matter? It is a new club that gets 50000 supporters, is debt free, has historic and emotional links with The Rangers Football Club plc and has taken over the assets of that company. In 3 years we will be thrashing the dross that is the SPL and winning the 1st of many new SPL titles. The future is bright and that is what the fans of the dross hate so much, let them make irrelevant points about the past, the past is the past and the SPL can’t take away the celebrations of that time.
None of this is to concede that The Rangers Football Club plc did cheat but as the investigation is a farce anyway and the decision already ordered by Peter Lawell who cares what they say or do.”
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:06
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Just because you’re paranoid…… says:
September 12, 2012 at 16:55
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longtimelurker says:
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I know what Fergus said mate and I knew that when i bought some of his shares and I’m still a MUG for buying them because not one brown penny went to Celtic but I knew what I was doing and I have regretted it ever since.
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The argument regards what Fergus took and when does the round every now and again. For my own part, I can comment as follows (for what its worth):
Long before Fergus succeeded in the takeover, adverts were carried in the Sunday Mail asking for potential subscribers to a Celtic Share issue. The adverts asked you to send £1 to a PO Box to receive an info pack. This was issued by a Company called Firstgreen. Fergus was behind Firstgreen.
The info pack contained Fergus’ 5 pledges:
opening up a share issue for fans (25%), with the proceeds being invested directly into the club
Buiding a new stadium
Deliver the League Title
Placing the club on a firm financial footing
and Finally, walk away after 5 years, becoming a minority shareholder.
The first Share issue of 25% was initially oversubscribed. The proceeds from that 25% went straight to the Club.
At that point Fergus announced that he was willing to further dilute his ownership and release further shares. However, he did state that these were his shares and that by selling them, he would begin recouping his investment (though much earlier than anticipated). Those who had missed out on the initial allocation were then offered some of Fergus’ shares. The difference was made clear at the time of the second offering.
So, both statements are true, Initial investors cash went to the club, as promised. Those who had wished to invest as part of that share issue, but were not lucky enough were given a second chance, but were informed that they were buying Fergus’ shares and thus the money for these shares would go to Fergus. This may have caused the confusion nearly twenty years down the line.
The investment in the Club at the time was an intangible, an emotional decision but one that stopped Celtic going the way of Airdrie, Clydebank or Gretna. To think that it was done by the fans, well what price can you put on that.
As an aside, i still have the Firstgreen info pack. With it came an A4 artist’s impression of Celtic Park, post rebuild. The only difference to that as built today is that the original drawing showed the Main Stand as rebuilt as two tier.
Fergus still has several seats in the investor’s section, he gives them out to charity functions. 7
I suppose that the one thing that the Celtic Support were lucky with was that in Fergus they had openness, honesty and integrity, just a pity that he was boo’ed.
When I heard Mr Charles state that the SPL were a Mickey Mouse organisation yesterday I smiled.
Disney (aka the Mickey Mouse Organisation) turnover in the year to October 2011 was $40.9 Billion Dollars.
Bigger than many countries and Major League Organisation Mr Charles.
Maybe even as big as some of Mr Charles’ as yet unnamed billionaire backers.
WOTTPI..Brenda…
No chance !! the majority of those MSM Slugs are fully complicit & are in too deep regarding their sustained media illusion…there is no way out for them.The informed no longer buy them the remainder (apart from some 🙂 are quickly realising & evaporating/falling circulation figures are testimony to that..next time have a glance over at the piles of both the main red tops..on the rack in your newsagent shop,supermarket etc..still available & unsold..?
Times are indeed a changin…
BBC Sportsound
Whomsoever within that repressively stifling environment of entasked disengagement the likes of Jabba his mundane ruminations upon the armageddonist magentist purple cloud of Sevco-fatalistico fantasy.
They once Lived, They then Died…They are No MORE.
That’s Oldco Rangers Folks…Don’t forget to leave your teeth and your property titles in a malted glass of drug store soda syphoned off post historical Sevco entitlement.
michael b says:
September 12, 2012 at 18:20
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Re Fergus being booed I was at the match mate and a lot of the booing was down to supporters trying to drown out the Fergus booers which the press seized on as Fergus was booed by the support at the championship flag un-veiling.
Yes there were some supporters who did indeed boo him but Fergus McCann did himself no favours with large sections of the support.
For me his refusal to back the team and stop the NIAR in favour of spending the money in the stadium was a big mistake plus of course the ‘sacking’ of WTT three days after wining the title to stop the ten was, well completely mental.
Of course I absolutely understand why he did those things but that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow even after all of this time.
Having said all of that I do believe that the stadium should be named after him and IMO he is one of the five most important people ever at Celtic.
Seems this from Alex Thomson, anyone confirm?
J”uninho and Celtic: I understand the EBT money paid he got wasn’t declared to SPL as per SFA rule 12.3. So why ‘no case to answer’ ?”
Bella Caledonia…………..Online Media…..latest story…. Nothing Learned ?
Nothing to see her folks – move along now.
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/189920-celtic-cleared-by-spl-over-use-of-ebt-scheme-to-pay-player-juninho/
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
Much as I like the extension of unpaid tax to ebts that you make, the fact that Rangers had appealed the tax on ebts meant that at the time the UEFA licence was being granted in April 2011 the tax due on ebts was not deemed unpaid simply by dint of it being under appeal. The licence rules allowed tax under appeal to be ignored. Only when it becomes free of appeal will it count as unpaid under the FFP rules.
Howevah ….. the situation regarding the tax due from the Discount ? Scheme (the wee tax case that crept from £1.9M up to £4.? m (i’m going from memory) the unpaid tax that had the Sherrif Officers calling in August 2011, well the situation regarding that is as unclear now as it was in October 2011
(see http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=787:did-the-sfa-deny-celtic-a-place-in-the-champions-league&catid=47:season-2011-2012&Itemid=83 )
for the exact rules and what the SFA said about it.
What AJ has revealed is that the SFA did ask Rangers about their tax affairs so they had concerns. The question is did the SFA ask about the wee tax case bill as well as the EBT tax. what did Rangers tell them and was what Rangers told the SFA sufficient to allow the licence to be granted in April/May with no subsequent questions being asked in key reporting dates on unpaid tax in June and September 2011?
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=856:in-whom-do-we-trust&catid=47:season-2011-2012&Itemid=83
Sooner or later we will learn the truth about the granting of the UEFA licence in 2011, especially if the canaries continue to sing.
PS A wee reminder to Mr Charles for one of the reason on why it has taken so long to investigate EBT matters at Ibrox
“The SPL Board heard a report from its solicitors following the investigation into payments to, or for the benefit of, players allegedly made by Rangers FC outside of contract.
The delay in concluding the investigation was caused by an initial lack of co-operation from Rangers FC.”
Auldheid
I too am convinced the Uefa licence for 2011 should not have been granted .I hope the truth will out also .
The spl should have sanctioned Ragers regarding the WTC long ago but IMO they just hoped it would all blow over ,more evidence of the complete and utter blind loyalty shown to establishment club .
Auldheid
My point was they used the ebts illegally to avoid declaring/paying social taxes
Therefore whilst no tax was due or under appeal they employed means to avoid it
Those means were wrong and they knew it
So they owed social taxes = no uefa license entitlement
longtimelurker says:
September 12, 2012 at 18:52
‘Seems this from Alex Thomson, anyone confirm?
“J”uninho and Celtic: I understand the EBT money paid he got wasn’t declared to SPL as per SFA rule 12.3. So why ‘no case to answer’ ?”
—————————
‘alex thomson @alextomo
‘SPL says no evidence of any rule breach over Celtic’s use of an EBT with an un-named player. ‘
And i didnt just mean 2011 which was known and no longer under appeal – they accepted it was due
WOTTPI says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:33
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 17:14
Thats the point isn’t it.
At no time in this sorry tale have I ever heard anything eminating from Ibrox that leads me to believe they are not guility of the two charges 1) Mismanagement of the EBT scheme …
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Improperly using a system to evade millions of pounds of tax is not mismanagement, it is evasion. Rangers evaded tax, the whole mismanagement / administrative error excuse is a myth.
There was never any doubt that the payments were not discretionary, therefore they were not suitable for this scheme. Everything subsequent to that is obfuscation, misdirection and propaganda.
Elasticity of Demand.
Too taught and I’m off…its too fraught, the fall.
Too Slack.
I’m in. It’s too feckin’ easy. I’m bouncing on Tims.
Sevco beware…it will rebound.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 19:33
I get that and I also accept the principle at play, but this is a mob who are scrupulous when it comes to interpreting the rules to their taste and the ebt tax, under the UEFA FFP rules is not yet an overdue payable as defined in the rules.
The unpaid VAT last season thatsaw them put in administration would have been an overdue payable to tax authorities and to be honest I am not sure what made them ineligible for UEFA competition first this season.
Overdue tax , going concern/no audited accounts, or being a new club. I think it was probably neck and neck between no audited accounts and the overdue tax in terms of timing.
Auldheid says:
I am not sure what made them ineligible for UEFA competition first this season
super ally??
Ally’s been awfy quiet 🙂 is he holed up with bomber and sardine. Lol
Any truth to this?
http://coplandroad.org/#505629
paul martin says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:08
🙂 😉 🙂
Ranchofranco says:
September 12, 2012 at 19:52
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Elasticity of Demand.
Too taught and I’m off…its too fraught, the fall.
Too Slack.
I’m in. It’s too feckin’ easy. I’m bouncing on Tims.
Sevco beware…it will rebound.
=========================================================================
Rancho…funny it may seem but I simply cannot find these “definitions” in my basic first year Economics textbooks by Samuelson & Lipsey…but then again, we all know what economists are like…don’t we?
Mr Green has every right to make his comments and feelings known.
…….and so, now the authorities should take these comments and throw every rule in the book at him, run him swiftly out of town, strip and be done- fit and proper person my auntie Fannie !
Should they fail to do so and toute suite, then this Chamberlain -like appeasement will brings down the entire basis on which football is run in this country and ALL clubs will be seen to be complicit in its downfall….when appeasement on this scale occurs, awful things happen
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:28
Any truth to this?
http://coplandroad.org/#505629
==========================
If you like badly written one-sided facetious propaganda, going for form rather than substance, then Mr Graham is a decent read.
He says nothing of any use or insight rather well.
Regarding AJ’s statement…………….another WOW! These peepil just can’t help themselves!
The sense of entitlement is writ large for all to see…so it goes like this…..
‘Yes we signed loads of players and paid them through a dodgy tax evading scheme…but hey had we known it was dodgy we would have paid them properly…..we’re Rangers, we arra peepil….the rules are for all you schmucs, not us! Don’t quote rules to us we are the biggest and most successfulest club in the world’
Not as though they collapsed into liquidation with 10’s of millions of debts or anything is it? Is AJ wanting to calculate the difference and put it with the other creditors and say no more about it?
Unbelievable!
Tick tock….
(have not said that for a while ;))
With regard to various innuendo’s emanating from Mister Green and his brigade I find it very helpful to remember these words from the late Christopher Hitchens:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Arabest says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:51
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Regarding AJ’s statement…………….another WOW! These peepil just can’t help themselves!
The sense of entitlement is writ large for all to see…so it goes like this…..
‘Yes we signed loads of players and paid them through a dodgy tax evading scheme…but hey had we known it was dodgy we would have paid them properly…..we’re Rangers, we arra peepil….the rules are for all you schmucs, not us! Don’t quote rules to us we are the biggest and most successfulest club in the world’
Not as though they collapsed into liquidation with 10′s of millions of debts or anything is it? Is AJ wanting to calculate the difference and put it with the other creditors and say no more about it?
Unbelievable!
Tick tock….
(have not said that for a while )
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Arabest…you do of course mean “100’s of millions of debts”… don’t you?
But then again, what is a factor of 10 to the “most successful club in the world”….a mere decimal point I presume?
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:47
You may not like it, you may find it one-sided propaganda, fair enough.
But this is the Scottish Football Monitor and would surely want to attract fans from all clubs, even Rangers. But he is giving reasons why this might be a problem.
Is it a problem?
I look back at all the posts on this page and all are about Rangers and one about the Hillsborough verdict, which is off topic here.
So, I ask again, should this blog be renamed, or re- designed, or what?
He does bring up something that I find astonishing, two pieces from newspapers discussing wrongdoings by Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers.
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
Something not right somewhere.
I tuned in last night to watch Scotland’s latest attempt to qualify for a major tournament and at the end of the match I was left wondering why I bothered.
Is it just me or does the style of football we play belong in an era 30 years ago; simple passes that have no penetration, not one player willing to get past the first man and drive at the opposition defence, ineffectual movement often taking players away from goal and into areas where they will hurt no one, woeful ball control, and if there actually are any tactics they are virtually impossible to detect. This is before we even get to the subject of players playing being played out of position.
We have watched other national teams develop players who pass and move and who will play a pass into the path of a moving player. How many times in Scottish football do you see a pass played which causes the player to stop or check back to get it?
These are the fundamentals of the game and if you struggle there then it is not going to improve the further you go on.
Now it would be easy to blame the players in all of this and indeed they must carry a lot of the blame but the real problem we have in Scotland is not just a playing style of 30 years ago but an overall organisation which belongs to a time even further back. The SFA is an utter shambles.
It is riddled with a committee structure which beggars belief. It is accountable to nobody and most fans perceive decisions are taken on a “nod and a wink” basis. Cronyism doesn’t run, it practically gallops, within this organisation; if your face fits then you’re in and if it doesn’t then there is no way you will go anywhere. Some referees have made reference to this recently.
The SFA could interview any group of managers but ultimately will go for either the cheapest option or it will go for the most expensive only to find one of its many sub-committees undermine him at every turn.
I posted a few nights ago that it was an organisation that long ago lost the moral authority to govern our game. It appears incapable of changing the fortunes of our national team as it seems intent to protect itself and its own little fiefdom.
A few years ago I heard a story regarding the French Football Federation; after failing to qualify for the 1990 World Cup, ironically put out by Scotland, they had a massive inquest. The result was the creation of a new setup, investment in a national academy, and as a result France have won a World Cup, a European Championship, and reached a further World Cup final.
Contrast this with Scotland; when we failed to qualify for the USA in 1994 we held a think tank headed by Jupp Hinkels the former Dutch coach. It cost a fortune and I’ve yet to hear of anything that came from it. Henry McLeish has recently conducted an investigation into the “way forward” for our national sport. That has been mired in self protectionism, cronyism, and mistrust between our plethoras of ruling organisations since then.
Now I’m not for a minute saying that Scotland could ever win a major footballing honour because I have always believed that simply qualifying for a major tournament was our final. I never thought that when we opened the World Cup finals in France, with Brazil, fourteen years ago that we, as a nation would not qualify again for nearly two decades. This is what it will be by the time the next tournament after Brazil occurs. I watched the Wales Belgium game on Friday night in the pub and, while I was a bit tipsy, I quickly came to the conclusion before Scotland had kicked a ball that we would be lucky to finish fourth.
I believe that the first three places will be between Croatia, Serbia, and Belgium with Wales or Scotland finishing fourth. After last nights happenings I think Macadonia will be in with a shout of fourth.
posmill says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:59
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With regard to various innuendo’s emanating from Mister Green and his brigade I find it very helpful to remember these words from the late Christopher Hitchens:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
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Posmill…as I said on so many occasions….”…every day a school day…!”
Many thanks.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
Agrajag says:
September 12, 2012 at 20:47
You may not like it, you may find it one-sided propaganda, fair enough.
———————————————–
I didn’t say I didn’t like it, quite the reverse I really appreciate the quality of the writing.
He manages to use a lot of words really well whilst adding little or nothing to the debate.
Spin like that is a skill, if he doesn’t already earn a living doing it then he should give it serious consideration.
He is also ironically doing the Rangers support no good whatsoever. This type of propaganda helped David Murray do what he did. It helped Craig Whyte do what he did. It is helping Charles Green do what he is doing.
So long as the Rangers support read Mr Graham’s work and follow it then they will continue to ignore the real issues. He will feed their sense of persecution and unite them against those who they would be better listening to, and get them behind those who are actually harming them.
His choice to do it, your choice to follow him.
So mote it be.
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
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He does bring up something that I find astonishing, two pieces from newspapers discussing wrongdoings by Paul McConville, the same guy who moralises over wrongdoings at Rangers.
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
Something not right somewhere.
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Naw yer man CG is not right mate in the head that is. This is the guy who compiled a list of rangers’ enemies and then subsequently pulled the blog after he was threatened by the wife of a Celtic bar owner, the man is at best delusional.
Re Paul McC, yes he’s had problems with his own career and he’s explained those problems in detail on his blog. Paul has never hidden the fact but I’m sure he will defend himself when he reads this.
Has the commission made a rod for its own back by announcing dates, what happens if no ftt verdict is known by the time they sit, will they pre-empt any verdict by the ftt, what would the resulting outcome be if an eventually delivered ftt verdict were to fly in the face of any commission ruling.
spanner says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:12
Has the commission made a rod for its own back by announcing dates, what happens if no ftt verdict is known by the time they sit, will they pre-empt any verdict by the ftt, what would the resulting outcome be if an eventually delivered ftt verdict were to fly in the face of any commission ruling.
============================
The people on that panel will rule based on the evidence presented to them.
The decision on an appeal into whether or not Rangers are due to pay the tax assessments HMRC issued them is largely irrelevant.
The FTT could rule that no tax is due, it would not follow that Rangers declared the payments to the SPL properly.
The bottom line is that in order to commit the fraud Rangers were pretty much obliged not to declare the additional payments to players to the SPL. However whether that led to tax being due doesn’t really change anything. If they made the payments they made the payments.
thank you essex, but if this was school I would have gotten marks off for the misplaced apostrophe in “innuendo’s” (sic) 🙂
CG’s rangers enemies list
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11526246&t=8700235
J Maclure says:
September 12, 2012 at 21:01
How does Mr McConville square that circle?
===========
He is capable of doing that himself but if it was me I would
“ draw a large circle around a universe of reference points that should be considered in assessing the magnitude of the allegations ”