Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Good Evening.

When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.

It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.

However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.

Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.

Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.

Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.

Job done so to speak.

Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.

Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.

Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.

No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.

Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.

In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.

As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.

Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.

Ever!

It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.

All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.

The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!

All to suit one man!

Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?

Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.

Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.

Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.

With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.

Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?

At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.

It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.

What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.

This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.

It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.

Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.

It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.

All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.

Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.

Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.

Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.

Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?

Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.

Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs  or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.

It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor!  There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.

About Jim McGinley
Management Consultant/Legal Executive and lover of Music, Sport,People, laughing,good food, good wine, a decent pint, Good Cinema, a decent book or two, brilliant cities with brilliant pubs, Celtic Football Club, total nonsense and Cowboy boots!

5,407 Responses to Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

  1. jimlarkin says:

    donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound

    – says he wants to see the new CEO at sevco being a man who knows

    “what the club is all about”

    [ i wonder what he means by that statement]

  2. rantinrobin says:

    Perhaps it would be more helpful if the new CEO did not know ‘what the club was all about’,or preferably did not care.

  3. chipm0nk says:

    jimlarkin says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01

    donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound

    ======================

    The man who was thrown out of Rangers for being too overtly bigoted.

    Yes, he really knew what the club was all about. I assume he considers the new one to be about the same things.

  4. chipm0nk says:

    Article about Mather’s involvement in Rangers, including audio interview.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18893159

    From July 2012.

  5. angus1983 says:

    chipm0nk says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 14:56

    … “I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne.
    ——

    Excellent. Another comedy name. Guy of Gisborne himself, straight from Sherwood Forest. It’s like “Once Upon A Time” on the telly.

    Green and Whyte – if you’d written this whole thing as a work of fiction you’d have been laughed out of town for using those names.

    Who’s next? Rumpelstiltskin with his personal assistant, Truly Scrumptious?

  6. easyJambo says:

    Craig Mather was one of the original consortium with 900K shares (of the initial 22M) which was increased to 1.8M shares or 5.39% of TRFC Ltd. prior to the IPO.

    His shareholding was diluted following the IPO and his 1.8M shares now equates to 2.77%.

  7. scapaflow14 says:

    If Mr Mather is appointed, then I bet the new board of TRFC will be Mr Mather, Mr Ahmed and Mr Stockbridge plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.

  8. allyjambo says:

    easyJambo says:

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:23

    Craig Mather was one of the original consortium with 900K shares (of the initial 22M) which was increased to 1.8M shares or 5.39% of TRFC Ltd. prior to the IPO.

    His shareholding was diluted following the IPO and his 1.8M shares now equates to 2.77%.
    ________________________________________

    No doubt someone who moves in similar circles to Whyte and Green and ‘introduced’ to the club by one of them, or both! A football agent, no less! Pretty close to being a spiv then and unlikely to break the mold. Clearly, Mr Findlay has got his wish, too; this man is steeped in what The Rangers are all about! He’s been around since day one 😉

  9. upthehoops says:

    jimlarkin says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01

    donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound
    ==========================================

    A couple of Findlay’s comments were laughable. Firstly that when he was at Rangers all business was conducted privately, which is easy when the club owner has the entire media in his pocket. Secondly, Findlay had the audacity to complain about how cash was distributed and the lack of competition that caused. I guess almost unlimited credit for Rangers from the Bank of Scotland did not have an impact on competition at all then?

  10. ecobhoy says:

    scapaflow14 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:37

    If Mr Mather is appointed, then I bet the new board of TRFC will be Mr Mather, Mr Ahmed and Mr Stockbridge plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
    —————————————————————————————————–

    I was never sure after the initial announcement whether Mather’s business partner followed through on a share purchase in his own name and I also wondered whether the shares might actually be held by the company they run which seems to make cardboard boxes from memory.

    But Mather also runs his sports agency as well and was made Director at Murray Park although I never saw a detailed explanation of his role. I, probably wrongly, assumed he would be spotting young talent coming through and selling it on with or without some development.

    I’m not sure he would have the time to run Rangers but who knows – I have heard no reports of his activities at Murray Park but noted some Darkside mutterings from time to time pondering what he is meant to be doing.

    I think he may have met-up with Green through their shared love of the gee-gees which can be a very expensive interest.

    I have been lazy and keep meaning to ask Companies House what the current state of the shareholding is at TRFCL now that the share-swap has taken place last December. There must be at least 1 x £1 share in existance and with Green gone who is going to hold it? The last share change notification took TRFCL about 6 months to notify which was well late.

  11. Mather has his own business to run and that is a full time job. Diverting his attention from that to take take the wheel at Titanic 2 would not make sense.

    Gordon McKie makes more sense, ruthless businessman, ex-senior Murray acolyte

  12. scapaflow14 says:

    therampantbaron says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:16

    Gordon McKie’s appointment would also herald some interesting possibilities

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/former-sru-chief-mckie-leaves-hong-kong-post-but-not-for-rangers.17618839

  13. Scapa

    Oh god, p
    Please not Brian Kennedy! We can’t put up with any more of him. He made the blue knights seem decisive….

  14. ecobhoy says:

    jimlarkin says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01

    donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound

    – says he wants to see the new CEO at sevco being a man who knows “what the club is all about”
    [ i wonder what he means by that statement]
    ——————————————————————————————————————

    Perhaps he means that the new CEO should have musical expertise as well as footballing 🙂

  15. angus1983 says:

    Looks like Peterheid are doing well at Ibrox.

    I wonder if the referee knows what refereeing’s all about. Surely a last minute penalty is in the Rules?

  16. angus1983 says:

    A bear talks about Ally McCoist:

    “lets give him another season and see what he can do with his 10 million as well – we need that desparately if we are going to challenge in div 2.”
    ——

    £10 million thought to be required to be competitive in Division 2.

    Learn? Never!

  17. nowoldandgrumpy says:

    Kenny Macintyre ‏@bbckennymac 7m
    #BBCSportsound Extra 5.30-discussing #Rangers.Questions please for former Director Paul Murray-discussing #CharlesGreen’s exit-0500 92 95 00

  18. jimlarkin says:

    angus1983 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:46
    0 0 Rate This
    Looks like Peterheid are doing well at Ibrox.

    I wonder if the referee knows what refereeing’s all about. Surely a last minute penalty is in the Rules?

    =================================================

    penalty or sevco opponent not “needed” since the SFL 3rd “division” is in the bag.

    does anybody have stats for sevco penalty kicks this season and opponents sent off?

    well dne jim mcinally

  19. jimlarkin says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:57

    absolutely – it appears the refs eased off on the red cards, disallowed goals and penalties after the title was in the bag

  20. Lord Wobbly says:

    carntyne says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:29
    0 0 Rate This
    paulmac2 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 03:50
    Eh?…What reputation?
    Pamplona?
    Barcelona?
    Seville?
    Manchester?
    ………………………………………………………
    You appear to be confused!….SEVCO have never been in any of the
    above cities let alone played a football game their…
    =======================================================================
    Not confused at all.
    What reputation do you think the statement refers to?
    The new club’s or the old?
    My opinion is the old as they’re still harping on about the 140
    years history.
    Perhaps you mean Sevco are confused.

    Reputation my ****.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Sir…sir…TSFM sir! He said “****” sir!

    _____________________________________________

    [Sorted! – TSFM]

  21. paradisebhoy says:

    Lord Wobbly says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 17:00

    Sir…sir…TSFM sir! He said “arse” sir!

    Tell Tale Tit
    Yer Mammy canny Knit !

    Aw naw I said Tit

  22. allyjambo says:

    Lord Wobbly says:

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 17:00

    Worse than that, M’Lud, it would appear his arse has got a reputation! Or at least he is demanding one for his arse 😉

  23. chipm0nk says:

    Surely even the Rangers fans weren’t gullible enough to believe the £10m nonsense.

    Mr Green clearly knew he was going to be away well before he would be required to give the manager any money, that gave him right up to January 2014.

  24. jimlarkin says:

    on bbc sportsextra

    [that phud] graham spiers, says that “everybody” has missed the 4 old-firm games this season.

    erm…don’t think so graham – i for one, have NOT.

    and you better get used to the fact that there will never be an “old-firm” game ever again

    why – rangers no longer exist – they went bust.!

    on another note –

    [ jim spence today aske the administrator at dunfermline fc
    is it important for dunfermline fc to avoid LIQUIDATION ?

    i thought liquidation didn’t matter?]

  25. mirrenman says:

    Stewart Gilmour was given a rousing standing ovation at St.Mirren park today

    just sayin’

  26. Auldheid says:

    I’ve been going on about the importance of club licensing to prevent what happened to Rangers and the impact of their fate on the game online since June 2011.
    It was therefore heartening to hear Stuart Cosgrove raise the issue with Paul Murray on BBC Sportsound.
    The issue for me though is not that processes do not exist, they have done for years, although strengthened by UEFA FFP for SPL clubs in more recent times, but there has been a failure by the SFA to apply the processes. That Rangers benefitted from this over the short term and Celtic, who had adopted FFP principles in 2004 (why is Brian Quinn so prominent in UEFA FFP matters? Because he was a FFP pioneer) lost out from 2009 to 2011 and the SFA had a few Rangers men in a position to influence led to the suspicion that failure to ensure compliance was just to favour Ramgers.
    But what if few clubs could have been granted a licence? Does that also explain the SFA’s reluctance to apply.
    I believe FFP standards need further enhanced to reflect the Scottish football environment and that clubs who do not comply need a couple of seasons to do so.
    I would then clarify the difference between a licence and membership which allowed a gap through which a club with a questionnable business case was given membership to make membership of the SFA conditional upon any club seeking it having been granted a licence first.
    I would also put the licensing process under the control of the leagues in terms of doing it and recommending granting one to the SFA to approve.
    Clubs would watch each other like hawks and shout foul if they thought one was taking place.
    This we prevent any possibility of a recurrence of the last 13 years.
    If you are reading Stuart keep pushing the FFP issue and if you see further merit in my suggestions- fill yer boots.

  27. chipm0nk says:

    mirrenman says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 18:50

    Stewart Gilmour was given a rousing standing ovation at St.Mirren park today

    just sayin’

    =============================

    Clearly the support agree with him that the restructuring was not in the best interests of St Mirren.

    Or possibly they are happy to have won the CIS Cup for the first time ever.

    Maybe both.

    It’s nice to see a group of supporters who have a board who they are in agreement with.

  28. bishopsweed says:

    Where does all this leave Sandaza..?

  29. madbhoy24941 says:

    Just heard from a cast iron source within The SPL that there WILL be a Glasgow Derby next season!

  30. readcelt says:

    Thistle v Celtic?

  31. madbhoy24941 says:

    C’mon Readcelt, give the others a chance to ask for my source first!!!

  32. jean7brodie says:

    madbhoy24941 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 21:57

    Never mind the bloody source, spill!!!

  33. ptd1978 says:

    TRFC have a serious problem now.
    If they appoint a former RFC man, it will be obvious to even the most ardent bears fan that the appointment has been made just to generate season tickets.
    They therefore need a serious businessperson, but anyone who falls into that category will immediately see that a complete overhaul of the finances are required and that most of the share flotation money has already been squandered on players who are far too good for SFL3 and a manager who has made those players look like SLF3 is about right for them.
    So who would want this job?? Lots of names are being put forward, but would anyone really be interested in this role?

    I see two possibilities from the logic above, and a third based on me being cynical:

    1. He/she will be someone who has to wield the axe in a way that D&P should have and will be despised, but will do it because it will be a labour of love.
    2. He/she will be someone who has to wield the axe in a way that D&P should have and will be despised, but will do it because he’s there to make money and the wishes of the support/the Cardigan’d NED/Ally the manager be damned.

    and finally:

    3. The next CEO could be a placeman, Someone who is there to further CG’s interests,

    Green knew he had to go ages ago. He hung around, forcing the board to instigate an “examination” that they now don’t need to complete and now has just walked?? Turkey’s don’t vote for Christmas just because they’ve had time to think about it. This turkey used the time to get his ducks in a row.
    Either the next CEO will face a board that is stacked in Green’s favour, or the new CEO will be Green’s puppet.

  34. jean7brodie says:

    ptd1978 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02

    Very surprising and refreshing to see ‘He/She’. Any runners?

  35. jean7brodie says:

    ptd1978 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02

    Mrs Ahmad?

  36. goosygoosy says:

    ptd1978 says:

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02
    TRFC have a serious problem now.
    If they appoint a former RFC man, it will be obvious to even the most ardent bears fan that the appointment has been made just to generate season tickets.
    They therefore need a serious businessperson,
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Nope
    The real situation in my view is this
    TRFC, like RIFC is firmly in the grip of Spivs
    Their aim is to milk TRFC dry then sell on to some other bunch of Spivs who have come up with yet another wheeze to milk the gullible
    There is only one worry preventing a ST booosting figurehead being appointed as CEO
    And that is an announcement from AIM that RIFC shares are suspended pending an investigation into Worthingtons claim to the assets that formed the basis of the IPO

    You can be sure that if a figurehead is appointed it signifies that Murray has informally persuaded AIM to hold off any investigation
    Any other appointment is guranteed to be a Spiv front man like all the rest (ex Murray and Cardigan) since the vast majorirty of shares are held by Spivs If that happens irs only a matter of time before AIM step in
    TRFC are doomed to sail round and round the City being milkd by anybody and everybody looking for a quick buck

  37. twopanda says:

    DRs Keith Jackson – Spelt it out today & really confounded my MSM expectations & generalisations. Ditto the STV youngster asking straightforward questions politely but focussed. Ditto the Heralds Martin Williams and Richard Wilson this morning efficiently informative piece. I don`t know if any of these guys have ibrox leanings or not but somehow don`t think that foursome – at least – are going for a three in a row duping title. More importantly the PR media management campaigns to date – effectively paid for by their supporters – if anything to go by some of my friends and neighbours has left said supporters [ yes there are many decent types] confused, split, angry and demanding meaningful straightforward explanations – not the contrived PR wordspeak – or audience pleasing rhetoric from their alleged fan leaders. More and more understand they are being systemically ripped off.

    Let’s see what transpires overnight in the Sundays/ through the week. Their [Rangers] position is more parlous than many believe and could [aka v possible] now rapidly spiral. Timing critical I believe. The next week could be pivotal for their future and now is the time for the MSM to tell it as it is. The MSM has a simple choice – continue the PR game in support of the valueless spivs – or relate real free and fair substantive news for [all] supporters [aka their readership].

    There`s a huge mess brewing – no good hiding it – won’t do anyone any good in the long run

  38. previouslyknownassnowdog says:

    Now that Clyde are moving to East Kilbride and the tribute act are soon to be evicted,could there be another name change in the pipeline,The Cumbernauld Rangers International Football Club? Just wondering like.

  39. upthehoops says:

    Good evening after a few beers down the pub.

    Paul Murray stated on more than one occasion tonight the only people he would trust are Walter Smith and Malcolm Murray. I make no apologies for once again saying if the starting point is ‘real’ Rangers men are beyond reproach, then we might as well end Scottish football altogether.

  40. upthehoops says:

    Sorry, just to clarify. I was referring to Paul Murray on Sportsound Extra – I was not speaking to him in the pub 🙂 Thank heavens BTW.

  41. dreddybhoy says:

    Why did Whyte/Worthington not have a cease and desist notice served prior to today’s game, given that we have been led to believe he is out for revenge>

  42. The CE says:

    From Pie and Bovril;

    Poll: In your opinion (363 member(s) have cast votes)

    Were St Mirren and Ross County right to vote as they did?

    Yes (265 votes [82.81%])

    No (55 votes [17.19%])

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    As the Articles of Association have revealed, well done to Roy MacGregor and Stewart Gilmour for stopping this car crash of a plan being put through. I wouldn’t put it past the Donkey to base an entire league structure on a potential sponsorship deal. Anyone who was for this proposal should think about booking themselves in for a lobotomy.

    What I would like to know is how and why it was attached to consensual and sensible proposals (pyramid, play-off’s, ect) that everyone agreed on?

  43. 61patrick says:

    dreddybhoy says:

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:05

    Why did Whyte/Worthington not have a cease and desist notice served prior to today’s game, given that we have been led to believe he is out for revenge>
    ————
    Maybe to give some people(friends and co conspirators sorry associates) time to dump their shares any make their promised profit,
    before he makes his next move 🙂 WHO KNOWS?

  44. The CE says:

    One person who must be delighted with Charles’s departure is the Dog Whistler Alistair McCoist. If CG’s departure hadn’t been the big story of the day some people might have noticed that Alistair had again contrived to lose to team with a budget in all likelihood at least 50 times less than what he has to play with.

    Break open the warchest!

    If AMcC cared about TRFC at least half as much as he proclaims, he would resign his position ASAP.

    PS – Have The Cowboys e-mailed their disgust at the ousting of CG? 🙂

  45. paradisebhoy says:

    previouslyknownassnowdog says:

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:47
    Now that Clyde are moving to East Kilbride and the tribute act are soon to be evicted,could there be another name change in the pipeline,The Cumbernauld Rangers International Football Club?

    That would please “The Bhoys from Croy” !

  46. manandboy says:

    Meanwhile, CO knows exactly what the plan is and what his role as the SFA facilitator is.

  47. chipm0nk says:

    The CE says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:22

    Anyone who was for this proposal should think about booking themselves in for a lobotomy.

    =====================================

    I have repeatedly stood up for people’s right to express their opinion, and for your club and it’s board to reject a proposal which they considered not in their own best interests. That is how democracy works and they did not have to justify how they voted.

    I lauded your support giving Mr Gilmour a standing ovation at yesterdays home game, and the fact that the support and the board agreeing with each other and standing as one.

    That comment however is out of order. That is not freedom of expression, that is simply insulting. I realise it won’t mean squat to you, but you really have gone down in my estimation.

  48. olemungobhoy says:

    Re Sevco’s search for a new CEO.

    They will no doubt make a thorough search of the pool of bottom feaders that produced Whyte and Green and …………………. well you name them .

    Chairman Murray .. a well respected uk busness man with a proven track record in ……..eh…eh eh ……how long is he gonna stick around. He.s got respectable business friends and a reputation to think off,

    Donald Findlay – surprisingly enough – thinks a good Rangers man with an understanding of the Club and it’s traditions should get the job.

    The new Sevco CEO will be like a man sitting on a barrell of rotten fish in the market place and trying to sell Tuna/Mayonnaise sandwiches .”Rotten fish Sir ………..naw nothing to do with me………………………………. £350 Sir……….and No surrender Brother !!!!

  49. resin_lab_dog says:

    The CE says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 23:22

    10

    4

    Rate This

    From Pie and Bovril;

    Poll: In your opinion (363 member(s) have cast votes)

    Were St Mirren and Ross County right to vote as they did?

    Yes (265 votes [82.81%])

    No (55 votes [17.19%])

    ______________________

    Interesting chat in the pub tonight among Caley fans. Idle speculation around why Ross.Co vetoed the change. All involved were Season Ticket holders. Consensus was actally reached: I share for information only, without prejudice.

    (a)Had propsals gone ahead, fans would have had to buy season tickets without even knowing which teams they were playing for part of the season. Not welcomed. Deemed presumptious by clubs and league authorities.
    (b) Had the proposed rules been instigated this year on the timescales envisaged, Ross Co would have been fighting a relegation battle. That same team are currently challenging for Europe, though? and rightly so, it was reckoned.
    Suggested to all present that too many anomalies are thrown up by the proposed set up, and it hasn’t been thought through well enough. Ross Co entitled to vote the way they did on the strength of this measure alone.
    (c) We all deplored TRFC shenanigans. Green had no friends in this company. Alot of sympathy for the fans, but bottom line, the ‘club/institution’ can go to ‘heck’ and should probably have its licence revoked.
    (d) SPL are mercenary bar stewards taking fans for granted. (Making Killie fans travel 12 hour round trip on for a wet wednesday evening, to suit telly, and then going up against Champions league???)
    (e) SFA… simply corrupt, lacking cojones, or both? Discuss…
    (f) Notwithsatnding (c) above, 14,14,14, set up is, nevertheless probably best suggestion to date.
    (g) Most of the other aspects of the proposed reconstruction would have been very welcome.
    (h) On balance, we decided Ross Co had probably done us a favour. (However, no compulsion to return said favour was forthcoming!)

    Bar closed.
    Meeting adjourned amid cries of ‘you’re my best mate’ and ‘thur aal bazads, the lot of ’em.

  50. The CE says:

    chipm0nk says:

    Apologies chip,

    You’re right the lobotomy remark my have been in poor taste, it was a clumsy attempt at an analogy for ‘getting your head read’, thanks for correcting me.

    I haven’t expressed myself very articulately, but I was just attempting to sarcastically convey my amazement that anybody could support 8-8-8.

  51. Rabo Karabekian says:

    Despite the huge crash boom bang surrounding Green’s departure, a point, well made by BRTH today is that without a shadow of a doubt, Green is not the main man in this subterfuge.

    Therefore despite Green going, whoever IS the main man is still pulling all the levers. And contrary to the MSM insistence that things are okay now that he is gone (like they did with CW before him), whatever damage Green or Whyte may have expected to cause to Scottish football and Rangers is still being done.

    Until the dodgy dealings which began many years before Whyte ever came on the scene are rooted out completely, our national game is in grave danger of being killed stone dead.

    To that end, and no matter to what detail you subscribe, there is no doubt at all that the SFA, rightly or wrongly (okay, rightly), are regarded as being totally corrupt. For any business, that public view of the regulatory body would be serious. Added to the Rangers shenanigans, the total disregard for sporting integrity – and the current economic pressures – there is in fact a real prospect of Armageddon.

    The footballers and the fans have done their bit with honour this year. The players have provided great entertainment and drama, and the fans have voted with their feet by turning up in increased numbers. They are being let down by greed, corruption, stupidity and lazy journalism. The authorities have in fact managed to turn this silk purse into a sow’s ear by failing to find a sponsor for the SPL, which has been one the most competitive tourneys for years.

    In football terms, the idiom “banana republic” could have been invented just for us.

  52. The CE says:

    resin_lab_dog says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 00:59

    I am in complete agreement from (a)-(h),

    And I know how hard it is to get a bunch of ST holders to agree on anything! 🙂

  53. Lord Wobbly says:

    madbhoy24941 says:
    Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 21:49
    33 3 Rate This
    Just heard from a cast iron source within The SPL that there WILL be a Glasgow Derby next season!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This’ll be good news for the SPL.

    (Do you see what I did there? 😀 )

  54. Lord Wobbly says:

    The CE says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 02:11
    4 0 Rate This

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-john-brown-warns-of-further-turmoil-1-2904085

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “It was going to happen anyway,” Brown told reporters. “You are journalists, if you do your job properly you would find that out. It is going to be interesting. I am not surprised because I knew what was going on but I am trying to get a job at Dundee.”

    I’m really warming to John Brown.

    Here’s a thought.

    Do you remember last year when we all laughed as we watched the Youtube clips of him giving it laldy on the Ibrox steps?

    “Is he really the best person they can find to stand up for the Rangers support?” we all thought.

    What if he really was?

  55. twopanda says:

    On the bright side

    `Just call them Rangers very own Three Musketeers – and no need for d’Artagnan.`

    After deleting prior posts – he`ll need to delete the rest of it – there is a God 😉

  56. upthehoops says:

    It was as laughable as it was disturbing yesterday to hear Chick Young advise that Rangers need someone who will give the club their traditional dignity back. I’ve never quite understood the obsession with dignity down Ibrox way as I’ve always viewed life as a cross section of different types no matter where you go. The notion that absolute dignity is somehow genetically installed in people the moment they become Rangers orientated hints in my opinion to the continued notion of superiority over all others. Chick Young went on to inform us that the dignity required was that of a Struth, Symon, Waddell, Wallace, and of course ‘Walter’. If Young believes the type of operation some of those names maintained represents dignity, then God help us all.

  57. madbhoy24941 says:

    The CE says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 01:09
    —————————————

    CE, I am not sure anyone really wanted the 8-8-8, I think it was more a fact they wanted change. They naturally assumed part of that change should be configuration of the leagues and divisions.

    In the absence of another option (I believe lots were discussed over a period of time), a lot of us were willing to give it a chance.

    On reflection, we may have dogged a bullet because the actual changes most are looking for is nothing to do with “meaningless” games, it is more about introducing a structure that can be trusted and that will eventually lead to a creditable challenge for the top title.

    Everyone was in agreement that more funds had to be filtered down; most believed one league body would be better, most wanted a pyramid system etc… So the 8-8-8 was only a part of the bigger picture so that is why some were in favour even though it was not a great structure.

    So I don’t believe anyone needs a lobotomy, well at least not for considering this proposal.

  58. valentinesclown says:

    Where is Mr Traynor? Unusually quiet.

  59. peterjung1 says:

    I have just been catching up on some of the discussions from yesterday on the radio – I am 8 hours ahead of the UK but ironically only catch up a day later….

    It seems to me that what the Rangers board decided in having an “independent examination and report” is in real danger of being turned into some sort of quasi-official or quasi-judicial investigation.

    Already I have heard this process being referred to several times in almost hushed tones as an “independent commission”.

    This latest nonsense must not be allowed to happen. This is clearly an internal process by Rangers which should have no bearing whatsoever on any actions that need to be taken by others outside of Rangers.

    What the hell are the SFA doing in all of this? One week on from some pretty damning evidence that Rangers look almost certain, in a quite deliberate and calculated manner, to have deceived the SFA to obtain a licence, SFL to have obtained membership and god only knows what else? How the hell can this 5 way agreement still now remain “secret” and why the hell is no-one, and I mean no-one screaming from the rooftops about the scandal of this secret document? It seems just to be accepted that it is a secret and that is that?

    Maybe I am missing something but I am sure that all I have heard from the SFA was some lame tripe about writing to Charlie for “clarification”. So what now that the bold Charlie has done a bunk as expected with pockets stuffed to bulging with cash? – by the way did I hear correctly that he has just purchased a chateaux in France? Seriously? You really can’t make this stuff up…

    Let’s be crystal clear on this that the process that Rangers are said to have started can in no way be considered as independent regardless of who they might ask to be involved.

    Seems like a desperate stalling tactic to me. The comments from McCoist about “cleansing” and the ramblings of Paul Murray further sound like a desperate attempt to cloak this internal process with some kind of kudos.

    I can hear DJ already ”…but the club did nothing wrong, the club were completely exonerated by an independent commission….it was all done to one individual in Charles Green…(insert any number of patronising platitudes here about “fans have suffered enough”, “punished enough”, “kicked when down…” etc. etc.

    Regardless it is looking increasingly likely that the Police, Financial regulators, financial implosion, or probably all three will finish this off for them anyway.

    I suspect that the main players in the saga all know this and this “report” is the first preparation in rewriting history for the main propaganda offensive that will accompany the death of this incarnation and the birth of New, New Rangers….. who will of course have 140 years of unblemished history and be blameless for anything done by the bad men….

    Now…roll up bears, you may just soon have a new IPO to get all misty eyed about…..

  60. barcabhoy says:

    Good morning from Barcelona. The weather is still glorious and Barca moved closer to La Liga title last night, albeit a little unconvincingly.

    However as I enjoy an OJ and and a gently swelling Med, I am troubled by the possibility I made an error of judgement a few weeks ago.

    Not so much that, along with most other observers, I was fascinated by the tragic/comedy moment that was Bomber Brown addressing the Mob outside of Ibrox. What is troubling me is that I didn’t immediately make an obvious link when the Whyte Sevco 5088 tapes story broke in The Sun 2 weeks ago.

    I will admit that I did have the thought that Bomber was maybe onto something after all, however until 2 minutes ago I never made the more obvious and more important connection

    Bomber was on his way out at Ibrox, that must have been immensely painful for him. He expressed himself in a way , that if it had been Neil Lennon, then the SFA would immediately have slapped a Sine Die ban on him.

    However in his pain, and street rhetoric , the significance of who also knew what Bomber knew slipped past. It seems to me that it is impossible that what Bomber knew was not shared with McCoist and Walter Smith.

    Yet how did these 2 Bastions react . Bomber stuck up 2 fingers at Green, told him to stick his job, and headed for the Front Door to spill the Beans and make himself a figure of ridicule.

    McCoist stayed put, accepted close to £1 Million worth of shares and jumped on the bandwagon by enthusiastically championing the season book sales pitch. Walter took a seat on the board and a £50,000 salary for a modest amount of part time work. How many shares he was awarded, if any, isn’t clear.

    Yet it is beyond believable that they did not have the same information that Bomber had. Which leads to one of 2 conclusions

    1. They didn’t believe Bombers information, which now calls their judgement into question

    Or

    2. They did believe it, which calls something much more serious into question

  61. yakutsuki says:

    Barcabhoy, it has to be number 2. Big John Knew! (But so did Ally and Walter. )

  62. peterjung1 says:

    barcabhoy says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 08:26
    Good morning from Barcelona. The weather is still glorious and Barca moved closer to La Liga title last night, albeit a little unconvincingly.
    However as I enjoy an OJ and and a gently swelling Med, I am troubled by the possibility I made an error of judgement a few weeks ago.
    Not so much that, along with most other observers, I was fascinated by the tragic/comedy moment that was Bomber Brown addressing the Mob outside of Ibrox. What is troubling me is that I didn’t immediately make an obvious link when the Whyte Sevco 5088 tapes story broke in The Sun 2 weeks ago……………..

    Good afternoon to you barcabhoy from a balmy Busan…..

    I have to say I think that you are bang on the money here…if you remember in the fall out from the “Ibrox Address” Brown seemed to be really bitter when he made statements like “only have 5 true friends” and “being shunned”…..my personal suspicions is that it may have just indeed been Saints Walter and Ally that Brown was thinking…..

    I find it inconceivable that Brown is aware of something that Ally and Walter are not…..if they were not all made aware of this at the same time then common reason suggests that the first two people that Brown would have made sure knew about this would be this pair.

    I have often wondered just how well these claims of “dignity” and “true rangers men” (whatever the hell that means) would stand up if ever given any type of scrutiny ….especially in the case of the cardigan adorned one…..(Smith that is – I just remembered that Ally has taken to this garment recently too…)

    Personally I suspect that both Walter Smith and Ally McCoist are up to their eyeballs in this……think back to last summer….

    Walter’s last minute fronting of a counter bid…which they knew fine well would be refused….then Green flashing his knickers at him….then Walter a few weeks later on board as a non-executive director…(just what are his actual qualifications for this role are I have no idea……presumably he is aware that there are serious responsibilities involved)…

    In the case of Ally….the bout of petulance and rumors of quitting….McCoist obviously very unhappy about something….only to (as if he had just fell of a horse somewhere in the region of Damascus) his sudden unwavering, in fact, oddly triumphant support of Charlie…just in time to get the all-important Season Ticket cash in.

    Has it ever been published how much McCoist and Smith are paid in their respective roles?

    I demand to know….etc. etc.

  63. Craig Mather is not being ‘brought in’ by The Rangers Board as some would have the gullible believe. This is an attempt by Zeus to place their own man on the inside again to carry on the good work already done by Mr Green and Mr Whyte on their behalf.

  64. monsieurbunny says:

    Liked this quote from Brown (I suppose SMSM don’t do irony)
    >>
    “It was going to happen anyway,” Brown told reporters. “You are journalists, if you do your job properly you would find that out.
    <<

  65. monsieurbunny says:

    Oooops someone beat me to it.

  66. Regarding Brown , the question should be “why did you shut up last summer?”,was he promised something ,perhaps a job somewhere else like Calderwood a few years before.

  67. Morning all from a blustery Glasgow
    Was out for a small refreshment with 2 sevco friends last night and these guys just dont want to talk about their team anymore ,they just dont want to hear anymore of the constant stream of horse manure they have been fed and by their own peeple too,it is nearly 2 years now since the rumours started ,2 years,now who has also been about for the same period ,yep Watty and Sally,and they claim to know nothing,zilch ,Nadda,what kind of human beings are these 2 or more to the point what kind of human beings is it that believe in these 2 ,they had not better come out out and say anything against Charlie along with an excuse for not saying anything before,I do expect something from sally along these lines ,its in his make-up,but this has a long way to go yet and we will see another farce develope ,and another as the incompetents queue up to do a Yosser Hughes ,if Charlie could fullfill one ,just one of his pipe dreams with the North Koreans it would be to allow them to direct their test instrument on a stadium over Govan way and do everyone a favour,now where’s the bacon rolls.

  68. ecobhoy says:

    peterjung1 says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 08:59
    Has it ever been published how much McCoist and Smith are paid in their respective roles?
    ————————————————————————————————————————

    The info is in the Rangers AIM flotation prospectus or can be worked out from that.

    From memory Ally is on £700K approx but with no real prospect of bonuses for some years, if ever, and Walter around £50K. Walter has a smal shareholding and haven’t a clue what price he paid for them but doubt if they are 1p shares as another Ned is publicly listed as paying something like 76p for his shareholding.

    Ally apparently has two tranches of shares: He has 1 million and I would be truly surprised if he paid more than 1p each for them and then I seem to remember another approx 70K which he bought later for his boys possibly at flotation although for that amount there would be some discount on the 70p flotation price.

    Of course Green won’t make any money from selling his shares as he has publicly confirmed he bought them to leave for his grandchildren. What a man he is!

  69. madbhoy24941 says:

    thoughtsfromthenortheast says:
    Sunday, April 21, 2013 at 09:27
    —————————————–

    He explained that before, he was warned off by the heavies….