Naming the Rose

We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?

The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.

Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history - the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.

The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).

The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.

The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.

Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.

Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.

Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.

So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.

So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.

Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.

Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.

What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.

Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most - we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .

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The Scottish Football Monitor is following the lead of RangersTaxCase in an attempt to hold the Scottish mainstream media to account and to question. If they do not ask the difficult questions, we will.

2,067 Responses to Naming the Rose

  1. bawsbustedanatha says:

    gie’s a gonk says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 09:08

    Phil Mac sent a thinly veiled “Hope you enjoyed your trip to London last week!” to Chris McLaughlin yesterday.

    iamacant says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 09:10

    I was thinking the same earlier.

  2. bawsbustedanatha says:

    bawsbustedanatha says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 09:43

    I suppose, if you were in any way inclined, post a comment on one of the other stories.
    Remember, there’s always two ways to skin a cat/spiv :)

  3. Senior says:

    Is it possible that the Ibrox hoard will do for Scottish Independence by bringing down Alex Salmond and his independence party, because of their foolish attempts to curry favour with the peepil – irony of ironies!!

  4. saskya1888 says:

    Regarding the CW interview..

    I do not believe for one minute that this is NOT a PR exercise, the timing is far to coincidental and there is no such thing as coincidence! The problem we have is not knowing what is it really deflecting from.

    The share issue?
    The liquidation / BDO involvement and details of such?
    The FTTT verdict?…….the list goes on…….

    I agree with all the poster’s here regarding the eye movement, the man {CW} is a born liar, I picked up on the point of obfuscation when asked what money he made from his tenure at the club – total evasion, could this be that he has not received his final slice of the pie? Does he need the share issue to be successful to finally get his cut? After all he did not come out all guns blazing, said just enough about the other piranha’s to create a diversion I think.

    Too much emphasis on the “club” being hard done by, on the misdemeanor’s of the SFA /SPL (who I know are complicit but are not the main issue at this time),just enough about DM (forget the”S”) and the list goes on……

    I really feel that all the educated poster’s on this site need to look through the smoke screen and be more vigilant than ever to ensure that this farce is not allowed to come to fruition , we need to be on the ball ;-)

  5. thebasharmilesteg says:

    Surprisingly I haven’t seen much comment on Whyte’s claim that basket case FC were in effect insolvent as far back as October last year, which is why he didn’t pay ENIC because it was either that or make people redundant. Good motive, but surely illegal – correct me if I’m wrong.
    Not only that but SPL were aware of the situation and were “supportive”. So let’s consider what might have happened if basket-case FC had gone into administration in October 2011 instead of February 2012. Immediate 10 point penalty of course but more important not even Duff and Phelps could not have spun out administration for 7 months, although the opportunity to earn even more fees would certainly have appealed to them.

    The result could have been liquidation mid-season, no cash prize for second place in the league, and all the other consequences. Even the SPL/FA would have been hard pressed to bend the rules sufficiently to rescue them from that position. Again, correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t liquidation mid-season mean they are in effect kaput? It’s quite conceivable there could have been no Sevco to rise from the ashes either.

    So, sorry to be paranoid, but was there another conspiracy going on to nurse the basket case through to the end of the season and make it easier for the football authorities to deal with the situation?

  6. tombrann says:

    Did CG shoot himself in the foot, by saying clearly that he got the bargain of the century when he got whatever it is he bought, for a fraction of it’s value? I know that I am paraphrasing and interpreting what was said, but is there any other way to hear it. BDO will surely have heard what the rest of us did.

  7. Senior says:

    Extract from D&D statement of yesterday.
    Apologies if previously posted.

    ‘A completely separate entity’ There you have it.

    “Should the application be approved, then Malcolm Cohen and James Bernard Stephen of BDO will be appointed liquidators of RFC 2012 plc, and will undertake the process of liquidation of the ‘oldco’ company and the continued recovery of funds for creditors. This will not affect the current operations of The Rangers Football Club in any way as it is a completely separate entity.”

  8. cosmichaggis says:

    thebasharmilesteg says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:16
    1 0 i
    Rate This

    I agree 100%, your synopsis is spot on. There was collusion and conspiracy at all levels of goverance in the Scottish game to allow the Oldco to limp to the finish line to allow for things to be “sorted”. This has been highlighted by Whyte’s statement about the meeting with the SPL.

  9. taxlawplebeian says:

    tombrann on Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:19

    Did CG shoot himself in the foot, by saying clearly that he got the bargain of the century when he got whatever it is he bought, for a fraction of it’s value? I know that I am paraphrasing and interpreting what was said, but is there any other way to hear it. BDO will surely have heard what the rest of us did.
    ————————————————

    This is what I can’t get my head around.

    Charles Green isn’t stupid (presumption), why would he open himself up by stating things like “the properties are valued at £80m”, unless his backside was covered?

  10. wottpi says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 09:19

    ——-

    On that note. I have some questions:

    Can I increase my company overdraft to …. say maybe 50% of my turnover? This would be ideal just now as many clients are holding money back these days.

    Can I employ some more folk (maybe using my inflated overdraft facility to fund this) to win contracts that I shouldn’t be able to win?

    Can I then pay these highly skilled members of staff by using some, shall we say, not approved by HMRC methods to allow me to get THE BEST employees on board?

    Can I maybe just syphen out most of the money that I make (including taxes) and just put it in an offshore bank account? This would innevitably mean that my business wont make any money but…

    Can I, after that, apply for the company to go into administration with no real interest in achieving a CVA?

    Can I maybe even just liquidate the company and find a family friend who could buy the old company’s assets ie PC’s, some stock and most importantly the name and the logo (which most of my clients know from many years of decent trading)?

    Can I move back into my old office and just start again? Debt Free!?

    I look forward to your answers ;)

    John!

  11. abcott says:

    ombrann on Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:19

    Did CG shoot himself in the foot, by saying clearly that he got the bargain of the century when he got whatever it is he bought, for a fraction of it’s value? I know that I am paraphrasing and interpreting what was said, but is there any other way to hear it. BDO will surely have heard what the rest of us did.

    ———————————————-

    It’s the bi-polar nature of the beast. Sometimes he forgets who his audience is. He also seems to forget what he has said before.

  12. Livia Burlando says:

    taxlawplebeian says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:39
    Charles Green isn’t stupid (presumption), why would he open himself up by stating things like “the properties are valued at £80m”, unless his backside was covered
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    I agree he isn’t stupid, but he does tell outrageous lies; almost every public statement contains at least one. And for the most part they go unchallenged.

  13. spartacusthethird says:

    thebasharmilesteg says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:16
    18 0 Rate This
    Surprisingly I haven’t seen much comment on Whyte’s claim that basket case FC were in effect insolvent as far back as October last year, which is why he didn’t pay ENIC because it was either that or make people redundant. Good motive, but surely illegal – correct me if I’m wrong.
    Not only that but SPL were aware of the situation and were “supportive”. So let’s consider what might have happened if basket-case FC had gone into administration in October 2011 instead of February 2012. Immediate 10 point penalty of course but more important not even Duff and Phelps could not have spun out administration for 7 months, although the opportunity to earn even more fees would certainly have appealed to them.

    The result could have been liquidation mid-season, no cash prize for second place in the league, and all the other consequences. Even the SPL/FA would have been hard pressed to bend the rules sufficiently to rescue them from that position. Again, correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t liquidation mid-season mean they are in effect kaput? It’s quite conceivable there could have been no Sevco to rise from the ashes either.

    So, sorry to be paranoid, but was there another conspiracy going on to nurse the basket case through to the end of the season and make it easier for the football authorities to deal with the situation?
    ———————————————————————————————————————-
    cosmichaggis says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:28
    2 1 Rate This
    thebasharmilesteg says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:16
    1 0 i
    Rate This

    I agree 100%, your synopsis is spot on. There was collusion and conspiracy at all levels of goverance in the Scottish game to allow the Oldco to limp to the finish line to allow for things to be “sorted”. This has been highlighted by Whyte’s statement about the meeting with the SPL.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    Have the curtains just been drawn wide open to expose one of the biggest ‘love ins’ that our football nation has ever seen.
    Have the SPL been exposed as aiding and abetting a crime of fraud by not dealing with the issue by the book when it came to light back in OCT 2011.

    We can sit and talk about how disgusting this is or find out how to expose this to UEFA/FIFA.

  14. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:

    So, CE states that he had meetings with Doncaster and Topping in October and told them Admin was INEVITABLE. He also states they were supportive. He then goes on to say that the SPL and SFA handling of the situation post admin was a farce.

    So, lets skip back to October and the meeting with the SPL

    CW says they were supportive….in what way?

    Did they offer to pull contractual payments forward to ease cash flow problems (as they did for Gretna)

    What support did they offer? How was it a positive meeting? What promises were you given?

    Also, given that you KNEW this in october, and that you were already NOT paying NIC/PAYE/VAT, then how come in January you didn’t try to sell Davis, Whittaker, McGregor, Bocanegra, Goian, Naismith and Jelavic (ok, you sold him)

    Surely that would have brought in enough to keep you afloat until the end of the season

    You seem to suggest the SPL offered to help (but don’t say how) but then you did nothing to help yourself……and now you are blaming the SPL?

    Anyway, moving on from october, CW states the SFA/SPL handling of RFC post admin was a farce – I agree, but for different reasons – but you don’t tell us WHY you think it was a farce.

    Did they renege on a promise to you regards payment of monies?
    Did they apply any punishments other than the 10 points in the rule book?
    What did they do that made it a farce (other than bend every rule to try and get you back into the SPL/SFL1)

  15. wottpi says:

    Livia Burlando says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 11:08
    0 0 i
    Rate This
    taxlawplebeian says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:39
    Charles Green isn’t stupid (presumption), why would he open himself up by stating things like “the properties are valued at £80m”, unless his backside was covered
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    I agree he isn’t stupid, but he does tell outrageous lies; almost every public statement contains at least one. And for the most part they go unchallenged.
    ==========================================================================
    And is that not the problem.
    While hardly the Spanish Inquisition the STV guy did asked the right questions with regard who the investors were and did the ‘club’ own Ibrox Murray Park etc. Mr Charles didn’t give a direct answer but said nothing to worry about (and in a reasonable manner IMHO) that all those issues would have to be be revealed as required by the AIM procedures in the proposed prospectus in a few weeks time. (Whether that happens is another argument).
    Then he can’t help himself and throws in the total rubbish about the properties being valued at £80m and the alarm bells start ringing.

    They just can’t help overegg the pudding.

    Did they learn nothing from what Bobby De Niro dished out after people started splashing the cash from the Lufthansa Heist.

    Just keep your head down and your mouth shut and you might just get away with it.

  16. twopanda says:

    In a `follow the money` mood today. – The money:

    LBG debt: 18,000,962.29p [@ 6 May] + unpaid interest + a consideration + asset finance / + hedging letters. For ease of sums assuming 100k p/m interest – add up all the bits and pieces– and a number about 20m was about and guessing here, the real overall take-over figure at the end of the day. Of that assuming 18m is `assigned` as stable and carried forward as debt. On to money tracking;

    In February the admins revealed there was a lack of visibility as to where monies where or had gone. In April within the first creditors report it was revealed that 20.3m had been placed with a client account “around that time” of the takeover. Trouble was the report didn`t reveal where the 20.3m went after that. We must then assume the lack of transparency / visibility as to where the money ended up has now attained almost official status. To be fair – the admins may have had good reasons for this reticence so we`ll give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Still – the 28 points on `events leading up to the administration` are a bit thin especially as 15 of those relate to the admins and most of the rest we knew.

    It would appear that 20.3m didn`t pass directly through RFC from day one hence the immediate non-visibility. It would appear the 18m debt was paid off at some point. But the 18m debt was `assigned` we`re told. CW had a separate fund say of 25m available to draw down on – but expensive if he did – say 20-25%. That 20.3m start draw down was too expensive to sustain CL monies or not – plus no working capital from the outset. Looks like a definite train crash – seems the brake pads were removed just to make sure.

    Old fashioned me was fretting how 20.3m can go walkabout for over 9 months without anyone even raising a quizzical/ dupeical eyebrow. Gross Spivery is suspected. The CO launches a criminal investigation. After 16 weeks now, how could the boys in blue be getting on? They`ll need justification, but have allegations – they just need the tools. Let’s looksee on the 20.3m bit;

    Brass Tacks; Somebody put 20.3m in a bank account and it stayed there until somebody took it out and put it in another bank account. That is a minimum of two somebodies and two banks. If the someone who took it out was different from the end beneficiary – then 3 somebodies minimum are 3 banks were involved and at least 2 somebodies knew what was going on at the end and why so.

    This is all dreadfully complicated isn`t it? But simple enough analysis to deduce CW was not alone.

    If criminal charges have been lodged, investigators can access the start and end UK Bank details fairly easily enough. Even if there`s one or two offshore banks in any middle intervening transactions that shouldn`t be a problem as they just can join the dots between the end parties, identify the players, and build a matrix of responsibility. But to start – you need to follow the money visibility through the banks. Who authorised the 20.3m transfer should be easy peezy to find out. Where the money went – and when – should be easy to find out. Establish if any motives, formulate proof if required – job done. If there`s something there – fine. If not – in the clear. But are our boys in blue facing hurdles after 16 weeks to clear this all up?

    True it may take time to access all the details and for sure they`ll face push back and artificial delays. I suspect like HMRC they`re observing one of the most atrocious acts of gross spiv-land in Scotland and are waiting to catch all the miscreants in a giant trawl. Patience is the watchword I`d venture. There`s an amazing amount we don`t actually know. TU investors who made this all possible are just one example. My view is there`s much more to come out on this. ;-)

  17. wottpi says:

    forweonlyknow says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:42

    Apparently if you are one of the chosen few then ‘yes’ to all of the above.

    Of course for the rest of us it will be Barlinnie :-)

  18. TSFM says:

    New post up by guest poster James Forrest

  19. bawsbustedanatha says:

    It’s started folks….

    SANDY JARDINE reckons Rangers are well on their way to being in their best shape for 30 years off the pitch.

    On it, he’s convinced Ally McCoist will lead the club back to the top.

    But the Ibrox legend won’t forget the turmoil they’ve had to suffer – until shamed ex-owner Craig Whyte is behind bars.

    It’s been eight months since Gers were plunged into administration and 18 weeks since the liquidation process was started.

    Jardine is just grateful they’re still alive but every time Whyte’s name is mentioned he can’t help but look back in anger.

    In an exclusive interview, he told Record Sport: “I now feel even more bitterness towards Whyte than I did at the time. What he did to this club was an absolute disgrace and I still can’t comprehend it.

    “It doesn’t surprise me he rarely shows his face in Scotland. He couldn’t try to defend what he did. He decapitated Rangers.

    “But I know the police and fraud squad are continuing to look at things and hopefully they will put him in jail.”

    Jardine has seen it all at Ibrox during a four-decade association with the club but nothing could have prepared him for the year they’ve just had to endure.

    And it pains him trying to explain Rangers’ plight to icons of the past, who will soon be celebrated at ‘Legends Lunches’.

    He said: “I’ve been through hard times but there was never a situation when I thought the club could die, and we could have done this year. When I meet the older ex-players, they can’t believe what has happened.

    “I met Bobby Brown last week and when he played here, Rangers were known as the biggest club in Britain and one of the biggest in Europe.”

    Jardine feels his club have been treated badly by the SFA and SPL, whose indecision left Gers waiting to find out which league they’d be playing in this season.

    They are now plying their trade in our game’s bottom tier but former Scotland full-back Jardine is adamant Rangers’ new chief executive Charles Green is the right man to steer the club back to prosperity.

    He said: “We’re now in a far better financial position than we’ve been in a long time. It looks as though the share issue will go really well and if it’s successful, we’ll be in our healthiest position for 30 years.

    “It’s still early days but Charles has delivered what he said he would.

    “The club has been treated abysmally by the governing bodies. We’ve been let down by them and I include the SFA, SPL and the tax authorities in that.

    “We know we deserved punishment and if the SFA and SPL felt we merited punishments, they could have done it within a few weeks.

    “But it was left to the last minute, just 24 hours before our first game at Brechin we still didn’t know if we had a licence and that’s disgraceful.”

    Jardine is convinced Rangers will return to the top of Scottish football and is adamant boss McCoist is the man to take them there.

    He added: “Ally has coped well with everything that’s happened but some of the players haven’t – and you can see that with a couple of our results. But this is a rebuilding job. If the players aren’t good enough we’ll get others who can do it.”

  20. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:

    Also, CW stated he met with Topping and Doncaster in oct 2011 to state admin was inevitable. Did he tell them then that he wasn’t paying his taxes?

    If he DID, then why weren’t RFC PLC punished for this – looking at how Hearts have been handled for not paying wages on time.

    If he DIDN’T – why not? why not explain the full depths of the shi’te the club were in? what were you hiding? Why?

  21. scottyjimbo says:

    Don’t know the legal definitions, but did Craigie in effect openly admit, that when he stopped paying PAYE, etc, because he had no other option, that he was Trading while Insolvent?

  22. HirsutePursuit says:

    Livia Burlando says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 11:08
    0 0 Rate This
    taxlawplebeian says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 10:39
    Charles Green isn’t stupid (presumption), why would he open himself up by stating things like “the properties are valued at £80m”, unless his backside was covered
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    I agree he isn’t stupid, but he does tell outrageous lies; almost every public statement contains at least one. And for the most part they go unchallenged
    ===========================================
    For accounting purposes, the properties can be valued in one of two ways.

    On a commercial basis – what are they worth to a potential purchaser.
    On a rebuild basis – how much would it cost to build the same structures.

    SDM changed from commercial to rebuild valuation to allow RFC to borrow up to £80m from BoS. It did not then, nor does it now, bear any relation to what anyone would pay to own those properties.

    Together, Murray Park & Ibrox have a rateable value of approx £2.5m. The rateable value is an truly independent valuation & is set according to the estimated annual rent that a property should be able to command in the context of the business undertaken.

    So, on the basis that football will continue to be played by a team using the Rangers name for the foreseeable future, a commercial property investment valuation is likely (I would think) to be somewhere between £20m and £30m.

    My suspicion is that D&P gave their valuers a brief – asking what the properties would be worth if Rangers FC were unable to continue playing football. The scrap value, if you like, is what was valued at £1.5m.

    CG’s reference to his recent rebuild valuation is an obvious deflection from the true commercial value and the accusation of gratuitous alienation. He will still cling (when it matters) to the ridiculously low commercial valuation obtained by D&P for the purpose of the sale of assets.

  23. Senior says:

    It’s the bi-polar nature of the beast. Sometimes he forgets who his audience is. He also seems to forget what he has said before.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    It’s imperative that to be a good liar one has to have an excellent memory.

    Green’s memory seems to have a time-span of twenty four hours.

  24. doontheslope says:

    On top of an audience with Craig Whyte and Charles Green, we were also treated to five minutes of lies by James Traynor on BBC’s flagship news programme. And this was on top of being subjected to ‘expert’ opinion on the Scotland shambles by Gordon Smith and Sandy Pullar Jardine, no less. There’s only so much sh1te you can stomach in a day.

    Gents, yesterday was a massive statement on the state of Scottish football (and society). Not so much in terms of what was said, but who was doing the talking. They are still in control. (FFS look at who is running Scottish football – Ogilvie, Ballantyne, Longmuir. What do they have in common?)

    Today in the written Press, no one has the balls to put their names to anything critical of Rangers lest a Govan fatwah be issued.

    Sad, sad country.

    Such is their power (and threat) that Lord Hodge even had to make a public statement that, right hand up to God, he promised to be fair – the utter ridiculousness of that being pointed out by Alex Thompson.

    Last week, Channel 4 exposed a case of blatant propaganda in the Russian media. The Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church made a televised speech justifying the jail sentences imposed on a group of young girls who were deemed to have behaved inappropriately in a church.

    Unfortunately, he made his speech while wearing a 20 grand gold watch, something which was noticed and exposed by an internet bamski. When the speech was later shown on prime time Russian News, the watch had been mysteriously airbrushed out. It didnt do for a man of God to be seen wearing expensive bling, especially a man of God who happened to be jumping into bed with the government.

    Yesterday was as blatant a display of propaganda as I have ever witnessed in any dictatorship or one party, military State. And it happened in Scotland. Shocking!

  25. doontheslope says:

    Senior

    If you come from a certain background in Scotland you dont have to worry your arse about lying. Who is going to report it or hold you to account for it? The MSM?

  26. goosygoosy says:

    18 Oct 12 15pm
    Whyte said that Minty was well aware of STs being used for funding even going as far as saying it was Minty`s company (MCR) that suggested Ticketus as a funding source. To emphasise Minty`s awareness he threw in a few other items included in the May 2011 sale agreement He admitted that the sale agreement addressed the insolvency scenario including liquidation of Oldco and formation of a Newco
    Mmmm..
    That’s interesting when you look back to the situation in May 2011
    CW took over a 1999 floating charge which the BOS (now LBG) held over RFC in exchange for a hefty loan. This charge predated new legislation introduced in 2003 which limited the rights of fc holders
    http://www.debtrecoveryonline.co.uk/pdfs/Enterprise%20Act.pdf
    The new legislation did not apply to the RFC floating charge. It meant that Whyte could appoint a prepack Receiver of his choice who was legally obliged to act only in the interest of the floating charge holder. This meant that HMRC and the other Creditors were powerless to oppose any legal decision by the Receiver that benefited the FC Holder
    So in May 2011 there was a legal framework that enabled the liquidation process to be anticipated with some certainty providing Whyte applied for a Receiver to be appointed to act solely in the interest of the FC holder (This failed when HMRC intervened on Feb 14 2012 and the ballpark changed forever)
    However back in May 2011 it was possible for Minty to make Whyte follow a particular prepack Receiver Oldco/Newco route by describing these actions in the sale agreement
    Which begs the question?
    Why?
    Why did SDM want to prescribe any part of the process whereby Oldco were liquidated and Newco created?
    What business was it of SDM ?
    What interest did he have in a Newco was formed?
    Why did it matter HOW a Newco was formed as long as it was formed?
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Here`s one plausible answer
    Newco had to be set up in a way that gave Minty his laundered money back
    Meaning
    Newco had to be sold to a 3rd party who would honour the Ticketus ST contract for 3yrs
    And who might that 3rd party be?
    Well if the creation of Newco was being prescribed in that sort of detail there is only one answer
    Craigie Boy
    Our Hero would blame Hector for the mess, instruct the Receiver to award him the assets and persuade the Bears that repaying Ticketus was a small price to pay for saving RFC. He would then launch his own fund raising and exit stage left with a large pay off

  27. scapaflow14 says:

    In the name of the wee man, Rangers were badly treated by the tax authorities? For fecks sake, where is the bad treatment in hector saying,look guys you’re abusing this scheme of yours and as a consequence you owe us back tax? Sandy, whatever lingering respect I had for you is completely gone you feckless halfwit.

    There, feel better now. the ball is firmly in Lord Hodge’s court, I can’t help feeling that HMRC would not be in the least upset at having two high profile IP carcasses swinging in the wind, to encourage the others….

  28. has the comment from Donsfan at 7.54 been pulled ,anyone repeat this .
    Thanks

  29. midcalderan says:

    neepheid says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 08:48

    paulmac2 says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 08:25

    Lets not forget that with all that is going on…and the sudden cascade of interviews taking place….Rangers Football Club was liquidated…I’m sure some are greatful for these interviews to hide this news..
    ==============================
    Well I missed that piece of news, and it’s what I’ve been waiting for, for about 4 months. Can anyone provide a link?
    ———————
    neepheid & paulmac2: I don’t think RFC is yet in liquidation. What seems to have happened is that the creditors approved the end of the administration process and Duff & Phelps will now make a formal application to place the company into liquidation in the Court of Session.

  30. Livia Burlando says:

    HirsutePursuit says
    CG’s reference to his recent rebuild valuation is an obvious deflection from the true commercial value
    ………………………….
    Yes. Another word for it would be ‘a lie’. And I don’t care if the relevant SORP allows it, it’s still a lie, the way CG put it.

  31. Agrajag says:

    scottyjimbo says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 11:56
    4 0 i
    Rate This

    Don’t know the legal definitions, but did Craigie in effect openly admit, that when he stopped paying PAYE, etc, because he had no other option, that he was Trading while Insolvent?

    ===================

    Correct.

    Craig Whyte told the nation, on television that for months Rangers could not pay their bills as they fell due and were therefore trading whilst insolvent.

    He also told the nation that he had discussed this situation with the Scottish footballing authorities, whose reaction was to ” be supportive”.

    He admitted that he should probably have put the business into administration before the season had even started if I remember correctly.

    Wow, just wow!

  32. Charlie Brown says:

    The only thing of any validity in Sandy Jardine’s comments today are the prolonged time period it has taken the SFA & SPL to ‘punish’ Rangers. He is perfectly correct that this could have been done in a matter of weeks not months had the will to do so been there which it clearly hasn’t or wasn’t.

    Funny that he wants Craig Whyte jailed for failing to pay taxes and plunging Rangers into insolvency but has never prescribed the same treatment for Murray, Bain, McClelland or any of the players and agents who were also complicit in massive tax fraud.

    I used to respect the man as a football player & ambassador but he is now a complete trumpet, an angry and dangerous one at that given his reported comments in recent months.

    Two Panda’s – you are remembering there are 2 Craig Whyte/White’s right?

  33. saskya1888 says:

    doontheslope says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 12:02

    Hear Hear!!!!
    If we take the wording of these people at face value and don’t look to what they are really meaning then we will again be tied up in their PR hype.
    These semi-illiterate so called governor’s of our football society couldn’t come up with these so called statement’s if their live’s depended on it.
    If questioned on their sporadic outbursts I’ll bet not one could verbatim repeat on any utterance that has been reported in the press.
    I still think that this is a smoke screen but not sure of what……..

  34. scapaflow14 says:

    RTC’s take on the £80m valuation

    “Probably will release a pro forma balance sheet with the prospectus. For appearances, it will need to show lots of equity. A big equity balance will also be a requirement from their Nomad for the share issue. As with HBOS, it helps their story.”

  35. Agrajag says:

    scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 15:48

    Eminently sensible

    To give prospective buyers the illusion that their mney is backed by £80m orth of assets should offer them some comfort.

    Such a shame it is nonsense.

  36. scapaflow14 says:

    Agrajag says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 16:01

    Aye, it is copied word for word from the Davie Murray play book, “Round and round she goes, where will she stop, no-one knows”, No-one except the bunko artist running the stall.

    I don’t think Scotland is to wee to be independent, but I do wonder if some of us are too stupid

  37. Agrajag says:

    scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 16:09
    1 0 i
    Rate This

    Agrajag says:
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 at 16:01

    Aye, it is copied word for word from the Davie Murray play book, “Round and round she goes, where will she stop, no-one knows”, No-one except the bunko artist running the stall.

    I don’t think Scotland is to wee to be independent, but I do wonder if some of us are too stupid

    ==================================

    Or not stupid enough.

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