Commander Green, The FIFA man, and life after the Murray Empire

Good Morning,

A number of years ago I sat and watched while the late David Will, one time chairman of Brechin City, former President of the Scottish Football Association and Vice President of FIFA, peered over the upper rims of his glasses at the assembled board and management of St Johnstone Football Club and proceeded to brand them all as a “shower of thrawn buggers!”.

The reason for the tongue in cheek outburst from Scotland’s highest ranking official from the world of football was the organisation of the centenary dinner celebrating 100 years of the Perth Club— which the club saw fit to hold well outside the centenary year. Will had been invited to speak as a guest at the dinner ( yes Mr Cosgrove I was there ), along with then manager Alex Totten and Craigie Veitch the former sports editor of the Scotsman.

For those who are not familiar with old Scots words, Thrawn can have a couple of meanings which are very similar. If someone is being obstinate, stubborn, uncompromising, perverse or intractable then in auld Scots we say that he or she is being thrawn. Equally, the original meaning has been said to be crooked, twisted, misshapen or deformed. A tree could be thrawn, as could someone’s arm or other part of the body. To be thrawn-leggit was to have a crooked leg.

These meanings then sort of morphed into meanings like difficult or contrary, and so twisted and crooked in that sense, and when David Will called St Johnstone a shower of “thrawn Buggers” he meant that they were being awkward, contrary and perverse in holding a centenary dinner when it wasn’t actually the centenary. He was of course being lighthearted.

That episode came to mind this week when I read the latest statements from Alastair Johnston and Charles Green. Both set out an argument which suits their individual purposes and adopted perspectives, and both perhaps chose to ignore counter argument or salient facts which would obviously derail their logic and train of thought. With the greatest of respect to both men— what a pair of thrawn buggers!!!

In that vein let me recap as to where I think we stand on this September morn in relation to the EBT debate, the question of “Club” and the Independent enquiry into payment outwith contract.

Clearly, all of these issues are closely linked but each stands in its own wee pocket or chapter, and when taken together they serve to make  a whole book or paint an overall scene.

The EBT issue has been repeatedly explained on the RTC blog and elsewhere but at the risk of repeating what is already known the fundamentals are as follows:

Employee Benefits Trusts under certain circumstances are or were a perfectly legal business and accounting tool.

However, in order for the trusts to provide substantial tax advantages, any reward, remuneration or compensation they provide to a beneficiary must not form part of their contract of employment or work package. If this rule is not strictly adhered to, then tax is payable on the sums “given” to the employee, with the employer being liable for tax and national insurance contributions of any employee.

It is alleged by HMRC, that a number of persons who were at one time employed by Rangers PLC have received benefits by way of a specific EBT. Further, the benefits which these employees received were clearly related to their contracts of employment and so these payments are liable to tax, together with interest for late payment and penalties for non-declaration and so on.

This is denied by Rangers PLC and by Murray International Holdings, and MIH have instigated and conducted an appeal against the HMRC view, with that appeal being determined by an independent tax tribunal (The FTT). The basis of their argument appears to be that the benefits received by the beneficiaries were nothing to do with MIH or Rangers and that these payments were purely discretionary and at the instance of the trustees of the trusts concerned– none of whom have any connection with Rangers PLC or MIH. Therefore– there is no tax payable.

Against this there seems to be a plethora of evidence which contradicts this stance including a number of side letters or second contracts which show that any payments to these EBT’s were indeed contractual and part of an overall contract of employment “package”– and if that is deemed to be the case then tax, interest and penalties are indeed, and always were, due.

These contracts or side letters then seem to fly in the face of the documentation lodged with the SPL and later the SFA, as both bodies require sight of all contractual documentation relating to players remuneration and their terms and conditions of employment. Contracts have to be in standard form and lodged with the appropriate bodies to ensure that the player is in fact properly registered to play for the team.

Further, the rules of football prohibit any player being paid by a third party, and so payments made to a player by someone other than his employer is a breach of that rule.

It is this issue that the Nimmo Smith Tribunal is to investigate and rule upon.

For their part, Rangers PLC appear to argue that the existence of EBT’s were always declared in the notes of their accounts, and so the footballing authorities should have known that they were in use at the club. More recently, Alastair Johnston has stated that the club did receive a request for clarification from the SFA in 2011 to which the Rangers PLC board responded disclosing documents ( although he does not specify what documents ) over and above the normal documentation sent re player contracts. Johnston has gone on to state that there was no response or follow up whatsoever from the SFA, and the appropriate UEFA licence simply arrived in the post without further ado. He concludes that as a result of the documentation sent, the SFA must have known at that time that the EBT payments were being used for “player compensation” purposes.

Now, AJ argues that if any misdemeanour or breach of rules has occurred it does not merit the much discussed and publicised “stripping of titles” and that any failure on the part of the Rangers PLC board amounts to no more than an oversight or an administrative error which does not justify the ultimate penalty.

Let’s just pause there and remember who and what AJ actually is in life. Alastair Johnston holds the posts of vice-chairman and member of the board of directors of International Management Group, the leading international sports and entertainment group. Now everyone knows that IMG was formed by Mark McCormack and represents sports stars as their agent. However what is less well known is that the majority of IMG’s work comes from broadcasting – not necessarily mainstream broadcasting – but the broadcasting of certain events to mobile phones and so on and in this context the company works with the likes of Vodafone and other major service providers in the sector. Further the company has the rights to market and broadcast the sports activities of a huge number of schools and colleges in the US as well as music channels, entertainment and so on.

I raise this aspect for one very important reason.

That entire industry is based on one thing and one thing only and that is………… a Licensing system. Broadcasters of any sort obtain the rights to broadcast by way of a licence. They licence content, they licence by area and geographical location, they licence for set time periods,they share licences, sell licences, create licences and terminate licences. Without a licence, they can have all the technology in the world, all the necessary content and so on but they are not able to show it, sell it and profit from it. Proper licensing is vital!

Further, they are very precious about licences- and rightly so– because unless they have the licences tightly tied up, others in the same field can attempt to steal their content, their territory and their rights– all of which are valuable assets.

So go back again and look at all AJ’s comments about proper registration of contracts, about proper administration of documents and licence applications for players, UEFA competition and so against the background of him being a grand fromage in a major company whose absolute lifeblood depends upon proper licensing.

Do you remotely believe that the continual and prolonged inability to properly declare all relevent contracts and player documentation to a licensing body ( both SFA and SPL in this instance) can be merely an oversight or an administrative error?

Further, take a look at the accounts for Rangers PLC at least in the year ended 2005, where it is made very clear that the football management side of the business was working extremely closely with the board in all business and contract matters.

The SFA in particular fulfills a licencing function– a function which is so important that without passing the tests laid down, any club of no matter what size simply cannot play or participate in the sole sphere it is designed to participate and play in. There are strict rules about licences, and a duty on the SFA as well as Rangers PLC to make sure that all of the conditions that must be fulfilled in order to gain a licence have in fact been met. It is not a process that should be left to chance or a process that any major organisation would leave to a junior member of staff or without there being a company defined process and procedure to ensure that the applications and compliance issues are properly dealt with.

Further, if you think about how a footballer player signs for a club– the negotiations, the transfer fee, the personal terms, the contracts, the agents commission and so on, you will realise that a player signing and the terms of his contract – or contracts for that matter – cannot simply come about by accident and outwith the boards knowledge or consent.

In short, it is impossible. It is also impossible, in my respectful opinion, to proceed on a decade long process of administrative errors involving the repeated failure to disclose secondary contracts or side letters. As someone once said to me, there comes a point where a continued and continual series of repeated errors or omissions starts to look suspiciously like a plan!

However, if we were to take AJ’s comments at face value, and accept that there were repeated failures on the part of the Rangers Board by accident, then to be honest there would be every right for shareholders and investors to hold the Directors liable for such negligence. Directors regularly and properly insure themselves against such claims– so I wonder if AJ has paid his insurance premiums?

Further, if he as Chairman presided over such mismanagement, then no doubt his time at IMG is limited as I doubt such  an organisation could afford to have such a dunderheid permanently ensconced in a senior managerial position.

However, AJ appears to be a positively straightforward chap when compared to Mr Green.

He of course is on record as saying that if the proposed CVA were to be rejected and the club forced into liquidation then the club dies, the history dies, and so on and so forth– but of course that was yesterday or the week before or even the week or months before that. That was the message that Mr Green wanted to convey at that time in the hope that HMRC would buckle down and accept the proposals.

Now, Mr Green seeks to sing a different tune, and recently latched on to Lord Nimmo Smith’s comments about the “club” being a continuing entity and capable of transfer from one owner to the next. He muses that if that is the case then the “club” may well in fact still be a member of the SPL and the SFA  as no matter what happened to Rangers PLC, Rangers FC are ” a continuing entity” and therefore should not be forced to apply to rejoin any body which it was always a member of– such as the SPL and the SFA. Of course this then means that all the history and so on remains– despite what he himself said earlier!

Now of course, Charles makes for a good soundbite and is mad keen to ensure that as many Rangers fans as possible take up shares in “the club” when he offers them for sale.

Yet there is the problem,– shares in what are being offered for sale? According to Charles– and following his logic— he can offer as many shares in the Rangers Football Club Ltd for sale as he wants — but that company will not actually be Rangers FC– will it? If Rangers PLC was not actually Rangers FC– then what was it that David Murray was offering for sale all those years ago? Or could it be that Charles has just got it plain wrong?

You see for some reason he did not quote Lord Nimmo Smith in full– especially that part where the learned judge gave a brief description of his interpretation of the law of clubs.

For example Charles chooses not to comment on this sentence from the learned judge:

“This is not to say that a Club has legal personality, separate from and additional to the legal personality of its owner and operator.   We are satisfied that it does not, and Mr McKenzie did not seek to argue otherwise.   So a Club cannot, lacking legal personality, enter into a contract by itself.   But it can be affected by the contractual obligations of its owner and operator.”

Earlier, Nimmo Smith said this:

“While it no doubt depends on individual circumstances what exactly is comprised in the undertaking of any particular Club, it would at the least comprise its name, the contracts with its players, its manager and other staff, and its ground, even though these may change from time to time.”

So let’s pause there.

A club is an undertaking— in other words any type of loose arrangement involving a group of people with a common purpose. If a club is not an incorporated club ( a limited company ) then to be anything other than a loose idea of a few folk getting together for a common purpose such as a holiday or a meal or to read a book or anything else– then of course it should have a formal constitution and a set of rules for its members.

So– where is the constitution for Rangers Football Club? Where are its rules of admission which says who can join? Are there certain rules that preclude you from joining? Is there a set limit on how many members there can be at any one time? Who are the officers of this club?

At the current time, Mr Green seems to be very keen on everything British and everything of a loyal and royal nature. So here is a quote from the pages of the Royal Yachting Association of Great Britain on the legal status of unincorporated clubs and so on.

“Since an unincorporated club has no legal status, it is incapable itself of owning property or being party to a contract. It is therefore standard practice to appoint trustees, who are usually required in the rules to comply with committee instructions, to hold the property (whether freehold land and buildings, yachts or a long leasehold of a reservoir) on behalf of the club members.”

Eh going by that statement – Rangers FC never owned Ibrox or Murray Park– and indeed can never own Ibrox and Murray Park. Someone had to be the trustee.

Further, it can never have been granted a licence to play football— you can’t grant a right to a non legal entity or to a body which has no legal status. You cannot accept a licensing application from a body which has no legal status. You cannot be employed by a body with no legal status.

Rangers FC has no constitution, no legal persona, is not allowed to own property ( heritable, moveable or intellectual), can’t enter into contracts and so on.

In short, Rangers FC is a body with no legal status– it does not exist and has never existed— unless it is to be found within the confines of Rangers PLC which everyone now recognises is in Administration and will soon be liquidated.

Still don’t believe me?

Ok here is a recent release by the Scottish legal commission setting out changes that they want to make to the law so that “clubs” can gain some legal status:

“In Scotland, and indeed throughout the United Kingdom, unincorporated associations are not recognised as entities separate from their members. Consequently, such organisations cannot carry out acts such as entering into contracts, owning property or engaging employees. The lack of legal personality can also give rise to unfortunate, and perhaps unforeseen, repercussions for members. For example, it is possible that, under the current law, a member of an unincorporated association could, by virtue of that membership alone, find himself or herself personally liable in delict to a third party injured at an event organised by the association. Further difficulties relating to this area of the law are set out in our Discussion Paper on Unincorporated Associations (DP 140) which was published at the end of 2008.

Our Report recommends a simple regime, with the minimum of administrative burdens, to ensure that associations and clubs are recognised as legal entities. Separate legal personality will be accorded to associations which satisfy certain conditions. The main conditions are that the association has at least two members; that its objects do not include making a profit for its members; and that it has a constitution containing certain minimum specified provisions. These provisions are: the association’s name; its purpose; membership criteria; the procedure for the election or appointment of those managing it; the powers and duties of its office-bearers; the rules for distributing its assets if it is dissolved; and the procedure for amending its constitution. Many associations will already have constitutions which contain these provisions but, for those which do not, we anticipate that style constitutions will be made available, free of charge, on the websites of organisations such as the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations”

Maybe Charles should seek some advice from the Scottish Council on Voluntary organisations? And perhaps he should note that part about not making a profit for members too!

Then again, as Lord Nimmo Smith has said the actual status of a club and who or what a club is depends on individual circumstances. So with regard to Rangers, let’s look at who would know– for example, who did Charles get “Rangers” from? Duff and Phelps of course — so what do they say?

Well they have stuck to their guns because in each and every report that they have issued to the court, the shareholders and the creditors they have included the following definition:

Rangers / the Company / the Club The Rangers Football Club Plc (In Administration), Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow, G51 2XD (Company number SC004276);

Now that doesn’t really help Charles does it.

Ok so, lets ignore Craig Whyte because everyone knows that he was a diddy— let’s go to folk that are far more sensible– how about the Board of Rangers PLC before Craig Whyte– what did they have to say:

Well, here is a statement from May 2011 which seems to set out who and what the then Directors thought amounted to the club– and let’s face it– they should know!

“Further to today’s statement from Wavetower Limited (“the acquirer”), the Independent Board Committee of The Rangers Football Club plc (“the club”), comprising Alastair Johnston, Martin Bain, John Greig, John McClelland and Donald McIntyre, (”IBC”) would like to make the following statement:

“In recent weeks the IBC has been engaged with the acquirer and has secured an enhanced financial commitment from Wavetower for future investment into the club. The decision on the sale and purchase of the majority shareholding in the club firmly and ultimately rests between Murray MHL Limited (“MHL”) and Lloyds Banking Group (“LBG”).

“Although the IBC has no power to block the transaction, following its enquiries, the IBC and Wavetower have differing views on the future revenue generation and cash requirements of the club and the IBC is concerned about a lack of clarity on how future cash requirements would be met, particularly any liability arising from the outstanding HMRC case.

“Wavetower is purchasing MHL’s 85% shareholding in the club for £1 and the club’s indebtedness with LBG is to be assigned to Wavetower. This share transaction would ordinarily trigger a requirement on Wavetower under Rule Nine of The Takeover Code for a mandatory offer to be made to the other shareholders.

“Given this transaction structure and following discussions with the Takeover Panel, the IBC considers there to be no purpose in the acquirer making such an offer to acquire all other shareholdings at effectively nil value per share. Accordingly the IBC has agreed that the offer period for the club will now end.

“In agreeing that no offer should be made to all shareholders the IBC has insisted that the acquirer issues a document to all shareholders setting out the full terms of the transaction, comprehensive details on the acquirer and the sources of its funding and giving firm commitments to agreed future investment in the club.

“The IBC is committed to ensure that the transaction and future investment and funding proposals should be transparent to all the shareholders and supporters of the club”

Ah— that doesn’t really help Charles Green’s current argument either does it?

So here we are, on the cusp of the FTT ruling, with a share offering in the offing, and SPL enquiry scheduled for November and no doubt Mark Daly and the Panorama team beavering away in the background getting ready for another documentary.

The decision of the FTT may reveal yet more of what the bold AJ describes as “Administrative errors” by way of failing to administer EBT’s properly so resulting in  a massive tax bill, and the SPL enquiry may reveal further “Administrative errors” in failing to properly record player contracts for a decade, with the result that players were never properly registered in the first place and so were illegal players during championship winning games.

Yet all that is history and in the past.

Today’s Rangers has a new hero, a new commander– even though who he works for is a closely guarded secret and remains a mystery to most of us who may be interested to find out who Charles Green really is and who he represents. He seems to attack certain quarters then retreat, antagonise and appease, and has a habit of constantly contradicting himself when it suits.

In the interim he reminds me of the most famous creation of the American writer Timothy Zahn who brought about a revival in the fortunes of the Star Wars franchise, bringing it widespread attention for the first time in years. He did this by creating a new villain to follow in the footsteps of the administratively challenged and ultimately vanquished Darth Vader.

Zahn describes this new villain’s command style as considerably different from that of Darth Vader  and other typical Imperial commanders; instead of punishing failure and dissent, he promotes creativity among his crew and accepts ideas from subordinates. He is a tactical genius who has made extensive study of military intelligence and art, and is willing to retreat instead of making a stand in a losing battle.

His full name and his true origins are only known to a few select individuals of the Empire and the New Republic.

To quote Wikipedia:

“His name is ………… reminiscent of the old Scots word meaning Twisted ot Crooked.

The character’s name is……….. Thrawn.

I suspect that we are about to see some pretty Thrawn statements from a shower of Thrawn buggers as the late David Will would have said!


About Jim McGinley
Management Consultant/Legal Executive and lover of Music, Sport,People, laughing,good food, good wine, a decent pint, Good Cinema, a decent book or two, brilliant cities with brilliant pubs, Celtic Football Club, total nonsense and Cowboy boots!

1,509 Responses to Commander Green, The FIFA man, and life after the Murray Empire

  1. stunney says:

  2. stunney says:

  3. Katie says:

    Brenda says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 02:39
    1 0 i Rate This

    Thanks Katie don’t know if this will be posted my posts are either not getting posted or are getting deleted?? Don’t know why cheers.
    Has TSFM explained why Brenda we need a bit of girl power.

  4. raycharlez says:

    youtawknaboot says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 02:37

    That’s actually very persuasive and humorous, to boot.

    But I am more of a sentimentalist than a pragmatist.

    I am also more of a communitarian than an individualist.

    As such, I thought I was part of a community of internet bampotery.

    I also thought this involved being a “broad church”.

    When I heard of Corsica’s passing I was genuinely saddened.

    When I hear of Brenda leaving I feel it is fitting to ask why?

  5. Brenda says:

    Katie…… Cheers for puttin ‘tawknaboot’ right I have contacted TSFM to explain my reasons I will pop on from time to time when there’s something interesting I have to say 🙂 just a little rattled by events today ……. You keep up the good work will speak again when the time’s right 🙂

  6. mdccclxxxviii says:

    sorry stunney if you hadn’t finished delivering the papers….

  7. Katie..just relax don’t fret…remain calm..breathe in through the nose & out through the mouth…
    ,,.ahem ..Brenda(n)’s posts are now being deleted..? it’s probably for the best.There are 1 or 2 just now, but there will be a deluge shortly of peeps scouring the “older comments” & posts of the recently announced “walking away” posters..might just throw up some interesting statistics & theories…so sit back “Katie” & enjoy the fun :!

  8. Katie says:

    youtawknaboot says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 03:05
    Oh silly me must have missedc the fun part xxx

  9. raycharlez says:

    I think that was at 02:07 when I called her a Benda.

  10. raycharlez says:

    Honestly, I did.

  11. Brenda says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 02:55

    Katie…… Cheers for puttin ‘tawknaboot’ right I have contacted TSFM to explain my reasons I will pop on from time to time when there’s something interesting I have to say 🙂 just a little rattled by events today ……. You keep up the good work will speak again when the time’s right 🙂

    ” I have contacted TSFM to explain my reasons I will pop on from time to time when there’s something interesting I have to say 🙂 ”

    Wow..!! just.. Wow !!

    Quick question if you don’t mind…
    Katie..(girl power) since 2011,, when was your 1st or last RTC/TSFM post 🙂

  12. stunney says:

  13. raycharlez says:

    youtawknaboot says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 03:25

    Have to admit Katie doesn’t ring a bell.

    Wow! Just Wow! certainly does!

    You are obviously “au fait” with the vernacular but your own user name is not one I am familiar with.

    What exactly are you inferring with regards to Brenda and Kate?

  14. What exactly are you inferring with regards to Brenda and Kate ….?

    I’m surprised neither Brenda(n) nor Kate have asked me “exactly” the same question 🙂

  15. raycharlez says:

    I am though. Will you answer it?

  16. raycharlez says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 03:56

    I am though. Will you answer it?
    I “still” remain surprised neither Brenda(n) nor Kate have asked me “exactly” the same question.

    I will leave it open & to allow either of the “girls”? to challenge….put your mind at rest Ray.
    ..but i do hope Katie has recovered from the trauma of Brenda’s hastie departure & her deleted posts by TSFM ,but I’m sure she is willing & able to keep up the good work as requested
    (girl power) forensically counting the hours until the SFA non “statement” was to be released..

    ..they are hurting & huuurtin reeeallllll baaaaad..!!.

  17. I think there was some confusion last night re posts not being posted or being deleted as I have seen a few of the long time posters allude to and they seem to have decided to say farewell to the blog. TSFM’s decision to showcase the fine poem that has been around for a few days meant that any posts made during this period, mine included were actually being posted ABOVE the poem. Maybe this is why there has been some confusion.

  18. The rangers 2010 accounts were signed off by grant Thornton – refer to audit report in the filed financial statements. There is no liability for big tax. Correctly so.

  19. exiledcelt says:

    Feels like I have come in at the end of a party where a fight has occurred and I am trying to figure out what when on…………..

  20. doontheslope says:


    “Feels like I have come in at the end of a party where a fight has occurred and I am trying to figure out what went on…..”


    I think TSFM was making the point – after Sevco’s defeat to bottom of division 3 team, Stirling Albion – that this blog is not to be a gloat-fest. The blog is going to be an important platform in the weeks and months which lie ahead, if corruption in Scottish football is going to be further exposed and challenged with any credibility.

    Last night, I went for a cyber wander around various blogs, laughed my @rse off at some of the wickedly funny observations/comments, then returned to TSFM to find that it was, for the most part, devoid of excessive schadenfraude. There was no party.

    While I’m sure a critical assessment of Sevco’s predicament in the light of yesterday’s defeat is welcome ie they cant win away from home, they cant sign new players and the players know this, McCoist’s innability to motivate his players in small stadia, Green cant ditch McCoist, how are the media portraying this result, etc…, I think that posts which are merely laughing at Sevco and contributing nothing else, dont further this blog’s aims, they detract from it.

    I have a life-time of reasons to split my sides at what happened yesterday, to rub certain peoples’ noses right in it, but I also realise that this is not the site to indulge myself. A much bigger and more worthy victory lies ahead.

    That’s my reading of the situation, for what its worth.

  21. readcelt says:

    mdccclxxxviii says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 03:04
    sorry stunney if you hadn’t finished delivering the papers….


    Good article. I wonder why Goram popped up and was given any column inches with his background.

    Through his words and actions Goram has displayed both sides of a mutually inclusive coin. Racism and bigotry.

    The MSM just sweep that under the carpet so they can bang on with the narrative they desperately want to pursue.

  22. allyjambo says:

    Brenda, althetim and Observer,

    Sorry to see you go and hope you all change your mind. You’ve all contributed well to the blog and no one keeps time like Brenda 🙂 Could it be that Carfin’s Finest has got to the cause of the problem? Anyway, until you change your minds I’ll miss you all. Good luck and enjoy your football

  23. stunney says:

  24. allyjambo says:

    readcelt says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 07:48
    1 0 i
    Rate This

    mdccclxxxviii says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 03:04
    sorry stunney if you hadn’t finished delivering the papers….


    Good article. I wonder why Goram popped up and was given any column inches with his background.

    Through his words and actions Goram has displayed both sides of a mutually inclusive coin. Racism and bigotry.

    The MSM just sweep that under the carpet so they can bang on with the narrative they desperately want to pursue.


    Pretty good article by Tom English and asks a question so many of us would like asked, but don’t expect an answer to. I always consider it a waste of time when players, and anyone else involved in the game, is asked about anything as controversial as the Rangers debacle, they are never going to say what they really think, if they have the capacity to think at all! And Goram showed many years ago that thinking is not his strong point. Regardless of his disgusting bogitry and racism he genuinely has nothing worthwhile to say, about anything, and I can only think he gets column inches because the sychphantic media feel sorry for a man they once worshiped. I’m pretty certain the majority of intelligent bears cringe whenever they read anything by, or about, Goram, if they lower themselves to read it that is. In truth, it speaks volumes about the paucity of the Scottish media that they are so short of decent sports writers that they should even entertain a quote from Goram let alone a whole article!

  25. Danish Pastry says:

    doontheslope says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 07:28
    5 0 Rate This

    “Feels like I have come in at the end of a party where a fight has occurred and I am trying to figure out what went on…..”


    I think that posts which are merely laughing at Sevco and contributing nothing else, dont further this blog’s aims, they detract from it …

    I have a life-time of reasons to split my sides at what happened yesterday, to rub certain peoples’ noses right in it, but I also realise that this is not the site to indulge myself. A much bigger and more worthy victory lies ahead.

    Good point doontheslope. Pie&Bovril’s cup runneth over with this type of thing, and quite hilarious some of it is too. When it comes to RFC this blog should be concerned with the whys and wherefores of the deeper issues.

    PS By the way, your doontheslope name always reminds me of playing on sloping pitches on Saturday mornings around Glasgow with the Lifeboys (from Meadowpark Street). One of the most extreme doon-the-slope’s was at Lenzie. Think it was there at least. Dearie me, it was weekly rugby scores against us followed by ice-cold showers. Ah, those were the days 🙂

  26. Lord Wobbly says:

    “Martin O’Neill did that with us,” the Celtic manager says. “Each year at Leicester he gave me a pay rise because things were going so well and we were playing so well. He did that with other players too. I think it’s important to do that with the players you can hang your hat on. It’s not massive money but it makes things a little bit more comfortable.”

    Let us (those of that are Celtic fans) just hope that Lenny has also learned another valuable lesson from MON. ie No Bobo Balde-type contracts if you please.

  27. exiledcelt says:

    Doontheslope – thanks for that – my reference to the party was not a reference to the Binos win or celebrations – rather my coming on here and seeing posts for blog contributors saying they are going, apologies being requested and sought etc was akin to coming home and finding the aftermath of a party that had gone wrong with broken chairs, crying, folks not talking etc……….I think you know what I meant.

    Like you, I have no real interest in the team in the lower division anymore – I was pulled up by davis since I had labelled the team in SPL3 as an irrelvance to me nowadays. Note that I was here in Thailand watching the EPL in my local and so never knew till this mornign they had got beat. I made the effort to find out the other SPL results – but never bothered to see other lower league results since theirs did not seem to matter enough for me to bother finding out – sorry!

    It seems that their triumphant march that turned into a succesfull waltz will now be a stuttering 2 step – however, I still expect them to win promotion and win a lot more games due to being full timers – and when the winter comes and the part timers from other teams have no where to train, TRFC have all weather training facilities. So CG and his mob can look after their footballing affairs with no interest from me.

    CG will fleece the bears – that is in no doubt and no one should be in any state of shock that he will leave them worse off than if they had decided to cut their cloth accordingly and worked to rebuild with a smaller fan base and youth players.

    My only interest is now twofold –

    (1) The aftermath of the summer of bending over that was done to accomodate the “fabric of Scottish society” and the extent of the SFA/SPL knowledge of the dual contracts
    (2) The divisiveness of CG and his rabble rousing in order to line his own pockets, the effect on Scottish society of this return to the hard liners and the impact this will have on the implosion that will follow his exit, No doubt the phrases “social unrest” and “armageddon” may be used again.

    I really want to know why the SFA allowed this unchecked cheating to go – were they so stupid or were they a part of it? As the main post says – we await the signatures and evidence to show to what extent we were paranoid or right to be concerned with folks like Peat, CO and Smith in the high offices.

    Why are the MSM being so complicit in keeping CG’s message on track and unquestioned? What reason is there for this?

    If it were a loophole in the rules, whay have they not been changed to ensure it cannot happen again?

    Questions….no answers – so far!!!!

    I too don’t want any witch hunts against posters – nor any rabble rousing or trolling – the site has been going great guns for a few weeks now. To have our Baird quoted on radio shows we are beign taken seriously and being read, so we’re not far off the mark – let’s continue the battle.

  28. Lord Wobbly says:

  29. I’m a long time lurker on this blog.

    I have to agree with actions taken to remove the gloating. For me, this blog has been about reasoned discussion and sensible critique. There are many other forums I can go to view or participate in ‘rib-poking’ exercises but it only detracts from what makes this blog decent. Keep the cheap jibes away.

  30. Long Time Lurker says:

    Interesting result for Sevco watchers yesterday. Apart from the entertainment value, the pressure on AM to step down as manager appears to be growing (if you assume that the views being expressed on internet forums are representative of the wider fan base).

    If AM stays as manager and the (away) results continue to be poor (from the Sevco fans point of view) does this signal that CG values the manager as a talisman, helping to pull in money to support the share issue? Or as Mr Traynor suggested yesterday on Your call, AM can’t go as he has invested in the club.

    Why would AM invest in the club? CG and his consortia purchased club assets from the administrators, players left, wage bill and some operating costs have fallen. No scope to buy new players until the transfer ban run it course.

    Unless CG is desperate for cash – why would AM part with his hard earned cash for it to sit in the (piggy) bank [do Sevco have banking facilities?].

    Jim Traynor often drops in the line on Your call, Sportsound that [The] Rangers are a cash rich club – what relevance does this have? Listen out for it! Why does he drop in that phrase most weeks? Is this part of the propaganda war? Is Mr Traynor trying to raise confidence in the finances of the club? If so, Why?

    Many have suggested that Sevco are facing financial difficulties, and may not last the full season. If AM stays and the results do not come, then I would be inclined to think that CG needs AM for more pressing problems that keeping the fans on side for a possible share issue. If AM walks away or gets fired, will attendances at home games (a) go up (b) go down (c) stay the same?

    Here are some questions for the MSM to put to the SFA.

    1. What elements made up the outline business plan for Sevco?
    2. Are all of the key elements of that business plan still in place?
    3. If there have been any material changes to the business plan – are alternative strategies in place to secure the necessary resources for the club?
    4. From a licence monitoring perspective are the SFA happy that Sevco can trade and support the club throughout the football season 2012/13?
    5. What key performance indicators (if any) do the SFA review to assess the financial fitness of clubs and whether they are likely to encounter financial difficulties?

  31. TSFM says:

    To clear things up from last night, at least I hope I can clear things up;
    Brenda, Observer and Althetim decided to inform us that they would not be posting any longer (temporarily or otherwise).

    I had assumed that this was due to some of the foul abuse of JeanBrodie by davis58. Subsequently, Brenda did post again, but she could not see the comments she made. I have spoken to her via email and she is aware that she is not banned, and that her comments were posted.

    Meanwhile, I was on moderation duty last night working to reduce the nonsense that was appearing courtesy of our friend davis58 whose posting privileges have been suspended, pending Jean’s reaction to his apology.
    I was also watching the blog to reduce the gloating that went on after the Rangers result, and unfortunately, yet another poster refused to go along with my requests, and was subsequently suspended.

    I would like to apologise to Jean for the slow reaction to the abusive excesses of davis58’s posts. Unfortunately, I was out at the time the worst of it happened. We have tried to give davis a bit of slack, and maybe he took advantage of that.

    Hopefully we can get back to normal today – whatever normal is 🙂

  32. Night Terror says:

    I usually cringe whenever I see someone has indulged their creative writing ambitions on a football website, but in the case of posmill’s effort – superb! I only hope that the brilliance of your effort deters others from inevitably inferior attempts to emulate it.

    iceman63 says:
    Saturday, October 6, 2012 at 05:50

    Read the Scotsman piece . Delighted to see “the good of Scottish football” trotted out again by Sally.

    I’d be much more convinced about any “for the good of Scottish Football” arguments when the actions proposed did not coincide with the interests of those proposing them.

    Again from iceman:

    iceman63 says:
    Saturday, October 6, 2012 at 05:38

    The SFA’s actions can only be understood in the light of covering up their own actions over the illegal registrations fiasco and the granting of a UEFA licence to Rangers in 2011 when they knew that they had no entitlement to one.

    I think the SFA’s actions, and particular in keeping Ogilvie in place, can also be understood as retaining some convenient bodies to throw off the side when a body or two is required.

  33. campsiejoe says:

    Does anyone else think, that very soon there will be some serious lobbying by the MSM and other “parties”, for the lifting of the transfer ban ?

    Completely unrelated, but I hope those posters who have decided to leave for a while, have a change of mind

  34. Lord Wobbly says:

    zoyler says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 10:06
    1 0 Rate This
    Yesterday afternoon – I think it was Lord Wobbly queried the
    who /where Ballinamallard

    It is a small town/big village in rural Co.
    My statement (rather than query) was that the defeat of Linfield by Ballinamallard has no relevance to this site.

  35. john clarke says:

    Night Terror says:
    Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 10:17
    ‘….I think the SFA’s actions, and particular in keeping Ogilvie in place, can also be understood as retaining some convenient bodies to throw off the side when a body or two is required

    That’s an interesting reflection.

    I’ve tended to assume that CO , not merely in virtue of his formal position in the SFA, is the real, down and dirty power broker who’s actually working the strings.

    That is, I think it’s not a question of the other board members keeping him in place, but of their powerlessness to get rid of him, unless and until an EGM were to be called.

    And thus far, at any rate, there has been no real sign that any one of the members is trying to get another nine or ten to put their names to a request for an EGM.

    Whatever else Ogilvie may be, it is clear that he is absolutely sure of his position, having brazenly signalled that his priority is talk to CG about coming back into the tent, rather than to bolster the authority of the SFA over any club, of whatever size and influence its fan base.

    For the head of a really troubled and conflicted organisation to feel comfortable vis-a-vis the media, and the public, in making such a clearly partisan and unbalanced statement when so many serious issues are unresolved, is truly indicative of his belief that he is safe from scrutiny, and free to carry on as before.

    Many of us have worked, or perhaps are still working, with duplicitous, very nasty but Teflon-coated people who have the amorality of an Al Capone, but the sophisticated skills of an Elizabethan intriguer like William Lord Burghley, who could with impunity send innocent men to their deaths in the ’cause’ of that b.. queen.

  36. campsiejoe says:

    john clarke @ 10:45

    Ogilvie is a protected species within the corridors of power inside Hampden
    Let’s not kid ourselves on, there are many people in positions of power within the SFA/SPL/SFL who have more than a little affection for Sevco/RFC(IA)
    These people will do whatever it takes to protect the old order, and if keeping Ogilvie in place is necessary to achieve that, then that is what will happen
    The silence from the rest of Scottish football on Ogilvie and the authorities is deafening, and tells us all we need to know

  37. allyjambo says:

    I don’t know if anyone on here saw this article, currently being debated over on Jamboskickback, in yesterdays Daily Expess, but I’ve not seen it referred to on here, and think it might indicate a change in Green’s publicity bandwagon tactics.

    Basically it’s a peice by Ian Black slagging Romanov over the non-payment of wages plus not re-signing him. While no one can argue that the non-payment of wages was a disgrace and a permanent embarrassment for Hearts, one has to wonder why Black is going to the papers with this story now. In fact, I really doubt he’s phoned the Express and said ‘I’ve got a great story for you’, certainly not without some encouragement at least. It is interesting, too, that it contains the following half-truths, very similar to those used by Green along with his nonsensical promises.

    ‘“But the top dogs at Hearts decided to cut the wage bill even though I had a year left. They just said, ‘We want you
    to go’.

    “I had a solid contract – it was their decision to tell me to go.

    “They could have kept me and said I was going nowhere.

    “It was pretty much the same as the manager’s deal – they ripped it up.”

    Well yes, they may have told him to go, but he didn’t have a year left on his contract, Hearts had an option to extend it and chose not to do so. It was similar with Paulo Sergio, though I believe they did offer him a reduced contract which he refused but left on good terms.

    As usual, the reporter doesn’t comment or appear to ask relevant questions. In fact, it could just be another ‘exclusive’ handed out by Media House.

    What I’m wondering, though, in light of the recent ‘bringing the game into disrepute charges’ is this a change in tactics? Green has alluded to his club’s enemies within the SPL and Romanov did make a none too friendly statement about Rangers oldco, so are Hearts one of his enemies (I’d be proud if they were) and is Green, or his PR team, using Black as his way of getting a dig at said enemy? While Black has a perfect right to speak out about wrongs he sees as done to himself, Green wouldn’t, and might well be considered as, once again, bringing the game into disrepute by slagging the owner of an SPL club.

    As I said earlier, why now? Ian Black seemed to accept the wage debacle without complaint and with good humour, as Hibs fans will know with his “I’m gonna paint this place maroon” tee-shirt. Hardly the actions of someone deeply upset by his employer. And if he’s so happy at Ibrox, why carry a grudge, and spout about it in the press, against the man who decided to let you go for free?

  38. john clarke says:

    easyJambo says:
    Saturday, October 6, 2012 at 22:24

    ‘paulmac2 says:
    Saturday, October 6, 2012 at 22:49

    Thanks, gentlemen.

    I suppose it’s fair enough that only the ‘paying members’ of an organisation have a right to complain about their board’s actions.

    But on the theme of Uefa’s public acknowledgment of the importance of the footballing ‘consumer’, it is interesting that ( so far as I can see) they have not advanced to the stage of giving a voice to representative associations of national fan bases ( to do so in respect of particular club fan-bases would, I agree, be a bad idea).

    But perhaps is because ( and I don’t know) there may at present be no such thing in any Uefa country as a recognised body speaking for all the fans in the country.

    Perhaps we should now be lobbying for, say, ‘ Supporters Direct’, to be so constituted as to make it possible for it to be recognised as formally able to lodge complaints against the SFA’s non-adherence to its own ( and Uefa’s) rules), so that the longer term interests of the entire fan base can be preserved?

    Just a thought.

  39. TSFM says:

    New post on the name of the ‘Ger 🙂

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