The Rangers saga as it happened…

The last 12 months has seen a lot of water pass under the bridge.  For a newcomer it is very hard to see past what the MSM are currently printing – I hope this article will go someway to rectifying that, and allow those who didn’t follow this story from the start to get a basic understanding of the views that have been formed on Rangerstaxcase.com and on TSFM.  Further, I hope it refreshes the memories of those of us who have followed the saga since the early days and focuses our attention on asking key questions that remain unasked or unanswered.

I have provided links where possible throughout the time line.  I have also highlighted in red where the story seems to end, a question remains unasked, or no answer has been forthcoming.  I may also have missed some critical points – feel free to mention these and we can add as we go.

The Rangers Saga as it happened…

June 2001: Christian Nerlinger joins Rangers.  Little be known to the rest of Scottish football he will be the first player paid by an EBT (an Employee Benefit Trust) which will later be declared illegal (as administered by Rangers) by HMRC.

Summer 2004: Jean Alain Boumsong rejects English Premier League sides to sign for Rangers on a free transfer.  Six months later he is sold (January of 2005) to Newcastle in an 8million deal .  This deal is later investigated by the City of London police who raided Newcastle and Rangers in June 2007.

A later report from Lord Steven remarked:

“There remains inconsistencies in evidence provided by Graeme Souness – a former manager of the club – and Freddy Shepherd – apparently acting in an undefined role but not as a club official – as to their respective roles in transfer negotiations.”

April 2010: HMRC hit Rangers with a tax bill of 24m before penalties for non payment of taxes  on monies remitted to players and staff via the EBT scheme.

27th March 2011: A new blog appears on wordpress named ‘Rangerstaxcase.com’.  Little did we know the impact it will have on Scottish Football.

6th of May 2011: Craig Whyte buys Rangers FC PLC for 1gbp from David Murray, with his holding company Wavetower taking over 85% of the Football club.

Mid-May 2011:  Craig Whyte renames Wavetower to the ‘Rangers Football Group Ltd’, the holding company for Rangers FC PLC.  He immediately claims he has cleared the Rangers debt to Lloyds Bank and is ready to invest in the team.  He quickly removes Alastair Johnston and Paul Murray from the Board and suspends  Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre.

5th June 2011: RTC uncovers a MG05 document filed at Companies House showing that Rangers have assigned 4 years of season ticket sales to another company.  This is later denied by Craig Whyte, but later on turns out to be the mechanism by which Whyte funded the takeover.

19th June 2011: Craig Whyte is asked about the RTC blog, remarking:

“I’m aware of a website that has dedicated itself to talking about our tax case, I’ve looked at it. What they’re saying is 99 per cent crap”

August 2011: Rangers are knocked out of Europe by Maribor.  A seemingly irrelevant event, but one that leaves a £15m hole in Craig Whytes budget.  One that he meets by not paying the tax man.  RTC questions in October where this money was coming from…

10th September 2011: Court papers from Martin Bain, related to his employment case against Rangers explode across the internet (papers in full here).  Within them there is a plea from Bain’s lawyers to freeze the claimed compensation as they feel there is a question mark over the clubs solvency.  Further it exposes the assignment of ticket sales to a 3rd party and shows that the debt owed to Lloyds Bank has not been discharged completely.  RTC analysis’ of these ‘Bain papers’ is concluded with the following:

While Rangers’ supporters might not be in any mood to thank anyone for helping shed light on this situation, it is good for their club (if not its current and previous owners) that this information is in the public domain. It is especially good for our national game as a whole that we discuss the problems of the last decade openly. Rangers supporters need to ask themselves why they have meekly stood by while the future of their club has been imperiled and whether their “friends” in the media have done them an injustice by becoming complicit in the cover-up of this story.

Unfortunately, despite the information being exposed to all, the Rangers fans failed to listen…

October 2011:  In the first mainstream feature on the case, the BBC air a documentary proving that Craig Whyte had been banned from holding a director position in UK companies for 7 years for ‘putting assets out of the reach of creditors’.  BBC are banned from Ibrox and Whyte claims he will sue the BBC for presenting false evidence - but later admits that he was disqualified.  Rather amusingly he admits this the same day he reveals Rangers have reduced their debt to 14m…. (they hadn’t)

The SFA stay silent on the matter and the writ received by the BBC in February 2012 has since vanished.

30th November 2011:  Rangers PLC release un-audited accounts for the year 2010/2011 revealing profits of 2 million pounds and NET Assets of 76m.  The accounts are NOT signed by an auditor leading to rumors all is not well in Ibrox.

January 2012: RTC explains in detail Succulent Lamb Journalism…  the phrase becomes a defining point of the story, along with ‘internet bampots’, coined by Hugh Keevins.

18th January 2012:  The ‘Big tax case’ concludes.  We still await the findings…

13th February: Rangers file papers at the Court of Session giving notice of their intention to enter administration within 7 days…

14th February:  HMRC petition the CoS to allow them to appoint administrators.  After a short hearing, HMRC withdraw the motion and Rangers PLC promptly appoints the now infamous Duff & Phelps as administrators.  On Valentines eve, Craig Whyte stands on the steps of Ibrox and announces to the angry mob the unthinkable… Rangers FC PLC is now in administration.

That evening it is confirmed that HMRC had pushed for administration over £9 million in unpaid VAT, PAYE and NI since the Whyte takeover.  This later rises to 18m.

99% what Craig?

15th February 2012: The SPL immediately deduct Rangers (IA) 10 points for entering administration, as per league rules.  Possibly the last time they follow their own rules throughout this saga.

Bizarrely, Rangers (IA) push ahead with the proposed signing of Daniel Cousin on wages of 7500GBP/week.  The SFA make no comment, despite this being against the rules for a club in administration.

David Murray, in typical fashion, professes surprise at events which RTC warned about 12 months earlier while Murray was still in charge.  Murray also says:

“Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of £36.5m excluding interest and penalties.

“Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favorable.”

21st February: Daily Mail confirm what RTC told us last year, by confirming that Ticketus bought 100,000 season tickets at Ibrox over the next 4 years.  It was this money that Whyte used to buy the club.  Rangers fans are up in arms.  Even though they ignored the warnings a year earlier.

The SFA announce that Lord Nimmo Smith will chair an inquiry into the circumstances leading to administration.

25th February 2012: The Sun on Sunday launches by printing what they claim is a ‘side letter’ given to Rangers players. A financial expert tells them:

“Number one, you are going to get £122,000 and number two you get £1,200 for a first-team game.

“It equates to salary as far as I am concerned. I would say this sort of letter will be a central thread in the big tax case.

RTC will later confirm they are correct.

27th February 2012:  The SFA confirm they will start an investigation into these ‘side letters’

3rd March 2012: D&P admit Rangers have no chance of making Europe next season, as they admit audited accounts by the 31st of March would be almost impossible.

However, in a baffling move, one month later D&P reveal they are ‘appealing’ the decision to ban Rangers from Europe.  UEFA respond by saying

“Licence applicants must demonstrate that as at March 31, 2012, they have no payables overdue towards their employees or social/tax authorities as a result of contractual/legal obligations to their employees that arose prior to December 31, 2011.”

8th March 2012:  Lord Nimmo Smith forwards his report to the SFA Judicial Panel.  The report contains prima facie evidence that Craig Whyte was not a ‘fit and proper person’.  A hearing is set for the 29th of March.  This is later postponed at the request of Whyte.  The full Nimmo Smith report has still not been released by the SFA.

9th March 2012: With no redundancies in sight, Rangers players agree to pay cuts, ranging from 75 – 25%.  It is later revealed that these are not ‘pay cuts’, but pay deferments which must be repaid in the summer, otherwise Rangers will be in breach of contract.  No info is forthcoming in the summer on whether this was paid or not.

5th April 2012: D&P reveal in their first creditors report that Rangers debts could top 134m, with HMRC claiming 93m of the total.

The report also details debts to football creditors of around 2.3m.  It also details debts of hundreds of creditors, such as that for Susie Thomson – a face-painter from Glasgow owed 40quid.  These were the real human losers in this story.

Interestingly, assets are valued at 116m, as per the 2011 accounts.

23rd April 2012: The SFA’s independent panel finds Rangers (IA) guilty of 5 different breaches of SFA rules relating to disrupte charges and are handed a 160,000GBP fine, the maximum available and a 12 month transfer embargo.  The judicial panel state that the offenses committed by Rangers were only one step “lower than match fixing”, and reveal that they considered the punishment of suspension of license or expulsion from the SFA.  They determine a fine would not be enough given the seriousness of the charges and thus impose a transfer embargo.

In the judgement, the panel make reference to evidence given by the Rangers Financial Controller who said invoices to Ticketus were such that they ” appeared as though Clip Art computer processes had been involved in their creation.” The FC tells the  panel he had never seen them.

24th April 2012:  The uproar from Ibrox is loud, with the Bears taking their anger out on the SFA.  McCoist makes a rallying call, demanding to know “who these people are”  He makes an ‘apology’ the next day for putting their lives in danger, but stops short of apologising for forcing names to be released, despite his club previously voting in a motion to keep names confidential.

As a result, a poor director at Raith Rovers takes his family into protective police custody, and Raith are forced to hire round the clock security after arson threats to their ground.  Finally, in August 2012, McCoist is charged by the SFA for his remarks.  He has decided to challenge the charge and the case is ongoing.

Rangers blame the SFA for not stopping Whyte earlier, despite warnings before he took over from RTC.

“Why did the SFA not investigate when they said they had suspicions before Christmas rather than wait until the club went into administration?

9th May 2012:  American tycoon Bill Miller walks away from a proposed offer for Rangers (IA) after being subjected to threats from the Ibrox crowd and discovering a “30 million black hole” in the Rangers accounts.

11th May 2012: Rangers reveal they will appeal the transfer embargo and fine imposed.  The SFA inexplicably name the 3 man panel that will oversee the decision, going against SFA rules agreed by ALL clubs, including Rangers (IA).

13th May 2012:  Reports suggest Charles Green, backed by a global consortium (still unknown!) has bought shares from Craig Whyte for 2quid.  He is given an exclusivity period to propose a CVA worth 8.5m.

17th May 2012: SFA uphold the transfer embargo against Rangers (IA) .  The SFA state that it was “proportionate to the breach, dissuasive to others and effective in the context of serious misconduct, bringing the game into disrepute.”

The Rangers Fighting Fund along with D&P announces they are paying a lawyer to challenge the SFA in the Court of Session.  SFA say nothing.

22nd May 2012:  It is now May, 3 months since the SFA/SPL announced an investigation into side letters and unauthorized payments to players from Rangers FC.  RTC once again provides evidence of a ‘prima facie’ case by revealing details of Christian Nerlinger’s EBT letters.

23rd May 2012: BBC air a damning documentary revealing details of EBT payments and side letters to Rangers players since 2001.  They also uncover emails showing that D&P’s David Grier seemed to have prior knowledge of the Ticketus deal.  D&P and Craig Whyte threaten legal action, but none is forthcoming.  The BBC also hint at payments made to managers not employed by Rangers at the time, including Graeme Souness.

29th of May 2012:  D&P reveal their ‘CVA’ proposal.  One that was doomed to fail, offering creditors little or nothing.  It also revealed if it was rejected then the ‘assets’ would automatically be sold to Charles Green and Sevco 5088 for just 5.5m (the ‘new’ value of the assets.  No evidence has yet been presented on how these ‘assets’ were valued.)

On the same day (seeing the pattern of bad news being overshadowed by good news yet?) Rangers ‘win’ at the Court of Session, with the court ruling that the SFA had no powers to give a transfer ban.  They decide to refer the decision back to the SFA judicial panel to decide on a new punishment.

Lawyer Gregory Ioannidis remarks:

“If the Scottish Football Association decides to not take action against Rangers, in relation to Rangers submitting the application to the Court of Session, then Fifa can actually penalise the SFA, and the individual club, and the national team of Scotland, and impose an international ban on all of them.”

No action is ever taken by the SFA or FIFA.

12th June 2012:  HMRC release a statement saying that they will reject the CVA.  Given that they have over 25% of the debt, it makes the creditors meeting scheduled for the 14th irrelevant.

“A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover, the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation, so the sale is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route.

“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA.

“Rangers can make a fresh start.”

14th June 2012: The CVA is formally rejected.  D&P immediately sell the assets to Sevco 5088 Ltd and Rangers FC PLC (IA) cease to operate as a football club.   The assets are later assigned to Sevco Scotland Ltd.  SPL rules state that a club that ceases to function as a football club should immediately relinquish its share and membership.  This does not happen.

15th June 2012:  Ian Hart denies being part of the Green consortium buying the Rangers assets.  Green had earlier named him when pushed to name his backers

So starts the misinformation campaign from Sevco.

17th June 2012: Rangers FC are excluded from the fixture list for the forthcoming SPL season, replaced instead by ‘Club 12’.  It is widely reported, that if Sevco Scotland are refused a place in the SPL, then Club 12 will be Dundee.  The SPL give no reasons why.

17th – 27th June 2012: Walter Smith, Allan Stewart and Stephen McKenna, and then John Brown all turn up in the papers making ‘bids’ for the assets which Green has already bought.

22nd June 2012 – Lord Hodge seeks report from D & P re: a potential “conflict of interest”, after information given to him by the BBC.

25th June 2012: The BBC reveal that Sevco Scotland will not be granted admission to the SPL, after 6 clubs publicly declare their opposition, after season ticket sales fail to materialize as fans make their views known.

27th June 2012:  John Brown stands on the steps of Ibrox and pleads with Rangers fans not to buy season tickets until Green reveals who are his backers and who owns Ibrox.  This question remains unanswered.  Brown is now silent.

4th July 2012:  Despite weeks of pressure from the SFA, SPL and MSM, the SPL clubs reject the application from Sevco Scotland to join the SPL.

Stewart Regan warns of Armageddon for Scottish Football if Sevco are not admitted to SFL1 instead.  We are still waiting.

5th July 2012Stenhousemuir reveal details of a talk given to them by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, where SFL clubs are threatened with bankruptcy if they don’t vote Sevco Scotland into Division 1.  Figures presented are ridiculed by the internet bampots.

Clyde and Raith Rovers emerge as the cheerleaders for sporting integrity in the lower leagues, with both clubs openly speaking out against what they describe as “irresponsible”.  Raith Chairman Turnbull Hutton suggests the SFL clubs send their mascots to vote on the proposal for Sevco to enter SFL1.

9th July 2012: the SFA refuse international clearance for players who decided to leave Rangers (IA) when the assets were sold, as were their rights under the TUPE laws.  This decision has yet to be explained, and is contrary to legal advice.

Meanwhile, Sevco director Imran Ahmad, when asked what he felt was the exit price to sell Rangers/Sevco was, replied:

“On a bad day the club is worth £50m.”

Of course, they had just bought the club for just 5.5m, and still had no league place for the forthcoming season.

13th July 2012:  Expiry of deadline for submission of report on D&P conflict of interest.  News suggests that Lord Hodge is on holiday.  No news has been heard since and the administration continues…

13th July 2012: Sevco Scotland are allowed to start life in the 3rd division, subject to gaining an SFA licence, after SFL clubs vote to reject the proposal to allow Sevco Scotland into the 1st division.   There is no sign of Armageddon.

15th July 2012FIFA write to the SFA asking for reasons why former Rangers IA players are having their registration transfer blocked.  The players claim their free agents and have rejected the TUPE arrangements with Green’s new club.  As of August Allan McGregor’s move to Turkey is still onhold as they wait on international clearance.  We await an answer, as we suspect FIFA do to.

24th July 2012: Ian Black signs a 3 year deal with Sevco Scotland.  It is unclear how he is registered or who he is contracted to.

9pm, 27th July 2012:  Just 48 hours before the first scheduled match for Sevco Scotland the SFA grant an unheard of ‘conditional’ membership to Sevco Scotland.  It is reported that Sevco Scotland have agreed to a 12 month transfer embargo, starting on the 1st of September 2012.  They also agree to pay all football debts of Rangers (IA).

Sevco, playing in strips of Rangers (IA) defeat Brechin City in extra time to record their first ever victory.  Ian Black plays as a trialist, despite signing a contract with Sevco Scotland earlier in the week.  It is further unclear whether players are registered to Rangers IA or Sevco Scotland, and if the former, how?

31st July 2012: At an EGM of Rangers FC PLC (IA) the directors change the company name to Rangers 2012 (IA).  At the same time Sevco Scotland pass a resolution to change their name to ‘The Rangers FC Ltd’.  Companies house data shows that Charles Green owns more than 10% of The Rangers FC Ltd, despite his claims that no one person would own more than this.  No one from the MSM thinks to ask this question.

3rd August 2012:  The Rangers FC Ltd are granted full SFA membership, after having the membership of Rangers 2012 (IA) transferred to them.  Under what rules this was possible is not clear.

ESPN follow SKY in agreeing a new deal with the SPL for TV rights.  No sign of Armageddon yet.

15th August 2012: Dundee Utd in a short statement reveal that they have not been paid by Sevco/TRFC for the unpaid debt relating to last season’s Scottish Cup with Rangers (IA).  Despite an agreement with the SFA to pay these debts, Charles Green blames the SPL for going back on a agreement made in May to pay this out of money owed to Rangers (IA).  Dundee Utd, and other European clubs remain unpaid, as does the poor face painter from Glasgow.

It is unclear how the ‘conditional’ membership works if the ‘conditions’ have not been met.  

STV further report that SPL clubs still do not know how much TV cash they are going to get from the new SPL SKY deal.  The SPL make no comment.

17th August 2012: Lord Nimmo Smith is appointed to chair an independent commission into Rangers (IA) making undeclared payments to players from 2001 onwards.  They are unlikely to sit before October.

22nd August 2012: ‘The Rangers’ announce they have signed a joint venture with Sports Direct for the merchandising rights.  Companies House shows that the new company, ‘Rangers Retail’, is owned 100% by SportsDirect.com

23rd August 2012: There is still no word on who are the investors in Sevco Scotland.  The SFA have not released any details to explain how Green passed the fit and proper person test.  No details of proof that Sevco Scotland have the finances to last the season.  The question of where are Ticketus is silent. Lord Hodge has still not returned his findings on a conflict of interest in the appointment of D&P.  The FTT result is still awaited, just like BDO await the liquidation of Rangers 2012 PLC.  Meanwhile, Stewart Regan resurfaces to announce details of league reorganization in time for next season, reducing Scotland to 3 leagues from 4.

Oh… and there is still no signs of Armageddon.

28th August 2012: Campbell Ogilvie finally breaks cover to talk about how league reconstruction was on the agenda long before Rangers ran into problems.  He managed however to proclaim;

To be fair, nobody really saw the situation coming

Yes Campbell… just like you didn’t see the side letters.

—-

StevensanPH is an exiled St.Johnstone fan living in the Philippines – he runs the SaintinAsia blog writing about all aspects of Scottish Football.  Thankfully the MSM don’t sell papers in the Philippines…”

1,011 Responses to The Rangers saga as it happened…

  1. tomtom says:

    timtim says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:21

    tomtom says:
    The days of amateur football and corinthian spirit are long gone and will never return no matter how much you yearn for it.
    ——————————-
    It was very much alive last night tomtom
    ——————————————-
    It certainly was and I stand corrected. My cousin used to grace the little hoops and I have a very soft spot for them.

  2. Roland Brown says:

    Raman Bhardwaj ‏@STVRaman

    SPL statement: Celtic qualifying to group stage – UEFA will give an additional £1 million to SPL – this will be shared by other 11 SPL clubs

    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favorite

  3. easyJambo says:

    Roland Brown says: August 30, 2012 at 14:56

    This is what is known as the “solidarity” payment. It is meant to be distributed between the association’s member clubs primarily for youth development.

    It is not a new thing. Clubs have received similar distributions in previous years.

  4. Charlie Brown says:

    Roland Brown says:
    August 30, 2012 at 14:56
    2 0 Rate This
    Raman Bhardwaj ‏@STVRaman

    SPL statement: Celtic qualifying to group stage – UEFA will give an additional £1 million to SPL – this will be shared by other 11 SPL clubs
    ===========================================================================

    Is there any original source for this claim? If true a suprising albeit welcome infusion of extra funds to avert “armageddon” although the amount seems to be rather small & aribitary in relation to the overall amounts to be paid out (has this happened before?) and a bit reminiscent of the rich throwing some crumbs from their plates for the poor…………..

  5. Charlie Brown says:

    easyJambo says:
    August 30, 2012 at 15:11

    Thanks EJ – a font of all knowledge as always. :)

  6. smallteaser says:

    Roland Brown says:
    August 30, 2012 at 14:56

    Raman Bhardwaj ‏@STVRaman

    SPL statement: Celtic qualifying to group stage – UEFA will give an additional £1 million to SPL – this will be shared by other 11 SPL clubs
    ============================================================
    You would think if it was a statement it would be on the website….alas yet again NO.

  7. easyJambo says:

    A footnote to my last post. Scotland received €690,000 for 2011/12. We get more this year due to Celtic reaching the group stages.

  8. smallteaser says:

    I imagine the Charles & McCoist hearings must be finished as we now appear to have moved to the upcoming internationals.
    Note no tweets regarding this form Rham or Chris, strange, has no one asked how the hearings went??

  9. FIFA says:

    Re the celtic match being moved to Sunday 11/11/12 ,matchday 4 is on 6/7 of Nov so could possibly be playing away on the Wednesday in some far flung place [manchester] so would give them an extra day to recover .Would there be any other reason.

  10. CE says:

    easyJambo on August 30, 2012 at 15:21

    Thanks for that EJ. So another tangible benefit to all Scottish Clubs from Celtic’s CL qualification? One that seems to have been missed is a few young scottish players are going to the benefit of playing in the Worlds premier club competition.

    Just to be mischievous EJ, does every club receive a share of the ‘solidarity’ payment? Even a newly formed tribute club in SFL? Or will they take the moral high ground and refuse the charity from ‘their friends across the city’?

    Any smoke signals from Hampden yet?

  11. Mr Bunny says:

    enfakid says:
    August 30, 2012 at 11:01
    Throwing money at other clubs does not create competition.

    Of course it creates competition, why do you think other sports have wage caps and recruitment policies to try and balance out the obvious disparity between teams?

    If the SPL continues as it is with Celtic allowed to totally dominate, in financial terms, then there will be no competition.
    ———————————————————————————————
    I’m kind of on your side except just “Throwing money” doesn’t create competition. It has to be used properly – having the extra money isn’t enough. But that doesn’t mean we should just ignore the money situation.

    We had the situation years back when decent TV deals came into the SPL and what happened? Lots of dodgy foreigners at the expense of home grown talent – and sometimes not very good ones at inflated wages. Clubs misused the money they had.

    Also we’re not at a level ground just now: Celtic are already in a very strong position and a lot of the other clubs are weak, so extra money wouldn’t make a big difference at least not in the short term.

    However long term, more and more money going to one club (or later again two clubs) will weaken the league and reduce interest in it – including amongst fans of the club which keeps winning all the time. If we’re really looking to the future fans of the bigger clubs will need to accept some kind of redistribution of resources whether that be purely of money or of players or something else that I can’t think of just now.

    Take the situation say of spitting gate money: that would mean more money for other clubs – but Celtic (and The-rangers too if they make it back to the SPL) would always have more money simply because they would be getting the split of the big gate every other week and not just twice a season.

    Other stuff like making a pool of all sponsorship, sales of shirts etc could be considered with division based on how well a club did but designed to prevent one club being massively stronger than all the rest. Not saying this would be easy to do (or even that this would be the best way of dong it) but something like this needs to be done. Perhaps we need a rule that sponsors above a certain amount of cash need to sponsor the whole league (or division) rather than an individual club.

    Of course going back to what I said at the start, we’d need better league organisation and better rules about financial control of clubs and control of spending before you did this … we need what extra money that we can get into the game to be used sensibly not wasted.

  12. Brenda says:

    smallteaser

    Very true!! Seems all the good honest journalists A Thomson, M Daly etc have been very very quiet????? No news or have they been given the sevco treatment?

  13. bjay says:

    Noticed that there is no Ian Black in the Scotland squad for the forthcoming games.

  14. Mr Bunny says:

    Seamus says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:20
    ———————————————
    Not everyone who disagrees with you, or goes off topic a bit or is even dead wrong about something is a troll. If they disagree or think they’re wrong, bring out your argument. If they’re too off topic (or are really a troll) admin will deal with them.

  15. miki67 says:

    If no one is asking for CO to go then that’s as good as complicity and will only drive rhe likes of me further away from the game.
    But….as I’ve said before,people like me don’t count,don’t matter ; just one more mug punter to be fleeced,duped and sniggered at. Not a good feeling,and not one I’m prepared to put up with for much longer.

  16. smartie1947 says:

    Re verdicts on Green and McCoist today.

    No truth in rumour that SFA are waiting on another opening ceremony of the Paralympics to enable them to sneak out a verdict at 9.00 tonight.
    Cynical – moi ?

  17. midcalderan says:

    Three cheers for Raman Bhardwaj. Now that we know, can we change the topic.

  18. Night Terror says:

    midcalderan – huh?

  19. Carl31 says:

    I had simply hoped to kick of ideas. Thanks for the reply.
    If the idea is to use some of the money coming in to assist a number or all of Scottish football, then I’d hold that something has to be done to incentivise this for the top club(s) that bring home the European bacon, so to speak.
    Fixtures could be one.
    The money cascading down through clubs is a phenomenon I agree would help, but the Archibald…Weir… etc example comes from an era where that kind of trading was well known and common, but international trading amongst clubs much less so (pre-Bosman?). There’s no incentive to point Celtic, in the current example, in the direction of good domestic talent. Indeed, they are reportedly presently looking at spending on Del Piero (reports that I very much doubt!).
    I wonder what could be exchanged by ‘lesser’ clubs for any share of funds?

    The arrangement between lessers and tops would be something that could be set up now and was allowed to run for a number of seasons. It would need to have reasonably straightforward future benefit for both sides of the deal.

    My thoughts are that, of all the avenues by which a top club gets funds in the door, player transfers are the only avenue which other clubs could have a bearing on. All the other funds come from (in some way) the indigenous fans or the club itself.

  20. Carl31 says:

    last comment at …
    Charlie Brown says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:46

  21. 5StarsorBehindBars says:

    SFA announcement will surely be made imminently – as everyone else is watching the Champions League draw – I would find that very funny myself :-)

  22. Carl31 says:

    verdict on Groan and McC at 1715 …

    reportage..
    [verdict of SFA blah blah blah but more importantly we go to the CL draw to find out who Celtic get!! lets report on that and ignore all else !!]

    yes cynicism is rife.

  23. iki says:

    Sepia says:
    August 30, 2012 at 14:39
    2 0 Rate This
    These are the Boards at the SFA:

    The main Board consists of seven members:
    plus Ralph Topping (SPL),
    =======================
    I think he resigned several months ago but is still with SPL.

  24. iki says:

    Green is new to this environment and will be given a reminder about future conduct.
    McCoist is not new to this environment and will be given a reminder about future conduct.

  25. Charlie Brown says:

    Carl31

    My thoughts are that, of all the avenues by which a top club gets funds in the door, player transfers are the only avenue which other clubs could have a bearing on. All the other funds come from (in some way) the indigenous fans or the club itself.
    =========================================================================

    Iam a Hearts fan – I watched the Celtic game on TV last night, just as I watched some other Champions league football the previous night. I also will watch our game tonight and no doubt some of the other Europa football that is on.

    My audience viewing contributes to the overall viewing figures and some proportion of the UEFA payment monies is calculated in proportion to national population/audience numbers, so in a minor way all non-Celtic fans who watch Champions league football on Tevelsion this season are indirectly contributing towards the payment Celtic will eventually receive from UEFA from TV & Sponsors/Advertisers.

    Just puting that thought out there. Lots of us like to watch football on TV, especially the big matches even if our own club isn’t directly involved. We are contributing too, but in this instance it is Celtic who will derive almost all of the benefit.

  26. StevieBC says:

    iki says:
    August 30, 2012 at 16:37

    Green is new to this environment and will be given a reminder about future conduct.
    McCoist is not new to this environment and will be given a reminder about future conduct.
    ======================
    Think you maybe correct about Green: suspended punishment ?

    But McCoist ?
    Will be very interesting so see how he is treated – and especially as it has recently become public knowledge that the Police had allegedly foiled an arson attack at Raith Rovers.

    I think a lot of people – myself included – ‘absolutely’ believed that this was an all time low by McCoist – and he showed total disregard for the safety of others – and their families.

    He is a disgrace.

    Will the SFA seriously misjudge the public mood yet again ?

  27. nowoldandgrumpy says:

    How about the Green and Ally non punishment is on the SFA website just as the CL draw is made.

  28. Night Terror says:

    Meh – precise timing of any decision doesn’t matter. So long as the decision is fair, who really cares at what time of day it is announced?

  29. midcalderan says:

    Night Terror says:
    August 30, 2012 at 16:21
    0 1 Rate This
    midcalderan – huh?
    ———-
    Your miles off.

  30. jocky bhoy says:

    It’s my view – and I know not everyone agrees – that this site is to educate as well as investigate. To illuminate as well as castigate.

    For this reason I will continue to reply to those I think need either explanation or exposure. Such as Enfakid.

    To make them drop their mask and, despite their fine words, typed with their “off” hand, expose them as wee njaffs who have their own agenda is (thanks for the reminder about Ross County, yet you say Celtic will sweep all before them. How does that work?), I think, an uplifting experience.

    It is in this context that I respectfully decline the requests to “not feed the troll” but instead shine the light on them. If nothing else it’s folk like Enfakid that help unite this site and bring it back ON topic, not off. It reminds us of the dark forces, paid or otherwise, that have been the root cause of the situation we find ourselves in.

    In other news….
    “Celtic allowed to totally dominate” – 1 trophy out of 3 last year. A year when 25% of the SPL won silverware and 33.33% reached a final. Now Enfakid says that’s because Celtic were overconfident – I think it was quite the reverse, most games Celtic lost were because of a lack of confidence, but either way, I am sure Killie and hearts fans have a more positive view of last year’s cups than Enfakid.

  31. TSFM says:

    New post – reblog of Glasnost piece on the judicial panel

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